We’re talking about friendships and relationships within the industry - there aren’t many industries in which it is expected that you sleep with your colleagues and this presents some unique challenges! We talk brothel camaraderie, feeling isolated, and doubles bookings gone bad. Our misconception of the week is that sex workers don’t pay tax, Jenna vilifies a man for mistakenly thinking she had solicited his dick pic and we share some interesting memories of one another.
2:07 Main Segment: Somebody You Love has friends in the industry
45:53 Misconception: Sex workers don’t pay tax
51:05 Shit People Say: Why vilify me?
57:38 Question of the Week: What is your favourite memory of the other host?
Patreon (from $3AUD/month): http://www.patreon.com/somebodyyoupod
Somebody You Love is sponsored by Assembly Four, empowering sex workers through technology: https://assemblyfour.com/
For more info on sex work in Australia, please check out the following organisations:
ACT (SWOP ACT): https://meridianact.org.au/swop/
NSW (SWOP NSW): https://swop.org.au/
NT (SWOP NT): https://www.ntahc.org.au/swopnt
Qld (Respect Inc): https://respectqld.org.au/
SA (SIN): http://www.sin.org.au/sindex.html
Tas (Scarlet Alliance): https://scarletalliance.org.au/links/
Vic (Vixen Collective): https://www.vixencollective.org/vc
WA (Magenta): http://magenta.org.au
Jenna Love 0:01
COVID-19 has had a significant impact on the sex industry. And snap lock downs and travel restrictions mean that there are times when sex workers require emergency financial relief in order for them and their dependents to stay safe housed and fed.
Holly Harte 0:16
sex workers don't get sick or holiday pay and many have no savings to fall back on. The stigma and discrimination that we face means that some have no proof of earnings to access government support. And of course, migrant workers are often forgotten
Jenna Love 0:28
Scarlet Alliance and their state and territory member organisations joined together to create an ongoing fund that is hosted on the website chuffed (that's CHUFFED).
Holly Harte 0:39
donations are tax deductible, 100% of funds raised go directly to sex workers in need, and most weeks the amount of people apply outweigh the amount of funds raised and sadly people have to be turned away. The link to this fund is in our show notes.
Jenna Love 0:56
Welcome to Somebody You Love or the sale of two titties. I'm Jenna Love.
Holly Harte 1:04
And I'm Holly Harte.
Jenna Love 1:06
And we're experts in disappointing our parents, breaching community guidelines and banging the people who vote against our rights.
Holly Harte 1:15
Today we'd like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land on which we're recording. I'm on the land of the Ngunnawal people,
Jenna Love 1:21
and I'm on the land of the Darug and Gundungurra people. The sex industry is really broad and captured within it is a wide variety of people with different histories and different experiences. Now we've created this podcast to try and humanise sex workers, both by telling our stories and by providing a platform for others to do so. But anything that anyone says on the show can only be reflective of their own experience and opinions. We really appreciate you listening to our voices, but just don't take our words as the hooker gospel.
Holly Harte 1:54
If you've been listening to us for a while, you will be aware that our podcast does contain adult themes. If this is your first episode, here's your warning, our content is rated 18 plus.
Jenna Love 2:06
So today, we're talking about friendships within the industry, and probably goes beyond friendships really into relationships of all different kinds within the industry. And now I, for the first few years of working in this industry, I did not know a single other sex worker. And I think a lot of people can relate to this. Because if you don't start by working in a brothel or in a strip club, or somewhere, obviously, where there are other workers literally around you in the same building, then you kind of are really on your own. And looking back, I don't really understand why. But I really didn't know that the sex industry like existed, like I kind of knew it existed, but I just I didn't know there was other people out there like me, I sort of, I knew that there were some brothels around, I knew that there were, you know, so called high class escorts, but I just didn't, I didn't know there was anyone like me, you know, but like I was in an okay position, because obviously, I had my husband. So it's not like I was completely on my own. I had somebody I could talk to about work somewhere, I could run ideas past. But it did mean that the people that I spoke to mostly about my work were my clients. And so all of my information that I gathered about the industry in those first few years was from clients. And at the time, that made sense to me. And now looking back, I'm like, oh, clients don't know what they're talking about. And of course, you know, some, some do more than others and whatever. But generally, like the people who are actually doing the job, other people who are the expert at the job, like if I go to a, you know, somebody who's a tiler, who puts tiles on houses, I'm not going to ask the customer of a tiler, how to be a tiler Am I? Like it just doesn't really make sense. I don't know why I used tiler as an example. It's--that was a weird example. Anyway. So yeah, I just didn't, I didn't know about the industry at all. And it wasn't actually until after I had taken a break from the industry. And I came back into it that one of my clients or a couple of my clients, I think, had said to me, like you should get on Twitter. There's, you know that there's heaps of people on Twitter. So I joined and then I discovered that there is so much to the sex industry. It's fucking massive. And then I started meeting people. And then I started, actually arranged to meet up with some sex workers. And the first people I met were Keira Swanson and Charlie Swinton. And it was bizarre. I was like, Oh, hi, oh you, you do this as well. And there's this whole world. And there's all these rules and there's all these things that people are doing and there's there's ways of doing things that are accepted as the way of doing it. And people would say like, oh, always do this.Or always do that. And I was like, Oh, I've never done that. And I've been doing this job for years, you know. And I actually went through a period of feeling incredibly resentful when I first discovered the industry, because I felt like I had been excluded, which was not the case at all, of course. But I was like, oh, there's all these people. And you guys have had this community, and you've all been hanging out. And I've just been here on my own, without any access to this support to the safety network, to this information. And yeah, at first, I felt really isolated. And, and I felt this weird sense of anger towards the people that were a part of the community. And again, looking back, I don't understand, like, I remember googling, I think I was googling like p-word Sydney. And I guess, because we don't really use that term very much in Australia, like maybe that wasn't bringing up any results. But at the time, I thought that that's what we were called. And I don't--like now I say to people, like we have so many peer organisations we have, there are outreach, there are all these places out there. And we, God like, we work so hard to try and reach every corner of the industry, because this isolation is a huge problem. And I don't know why at the time like it didn't reach me. And I, when I googled stuff about it, I didn't find out about any organisations, I just, I just didn't know that it existed. Because of the nature of our work, you know, there are all these resources out there. We do have peer organisations, there are formal and informal groups of people that come together and that form a community. And these are so important to the industry. But a lot of people from the outside don't know about them. And that's actually very intentional. Because, you know, if we sort of share information about our safety procedures, and our networks and how we do things, if we share those with people outside of the industry, then it means that they, you know, they can work out how to get around our safety measures. And that's something that I think any sex worker that is out to their family probably struggles with this, because your loved ones biggest concern is your safety. We have a lot of things in place to keep us safe. But we're not allowed to talk about those things. So it's hard to convince someone who loves you, to say trust me I am taking safety precautions. I just can't tell you what they are. Because it sounds like dodgy. But anyway, the point is, those networks exist in the industry, they're incredibly strong. But if you're not connected to them, you're not connected to them.
Holly Harte 7:39
I can definitely relate to that experience. I obviously had a different experience to you in entering the industry. And that is a whole other episode, our origin stories that we'll talk about, at some point, I did a few shifts in a brothel when I was a teen. And I was--that's a whole story. But it was quite daunting. And I was very alone. Nobody knew that I was doing it. I had one male friend that dropped me off to the brothel. And he was the only person that knew. And the brothel owner said to me, don't tell anyone in your life that you're doing this. I guess he was, you know, just looking out for me. He thought that, you know, if you tell people, the stigma will affect your life. So I didn't. And it wasn't until a few years later, I was doing promotional work with a girl I'm going to call Julie and Julie and I were we became pretty quick friends. And we were heading to some job, I think, you know, somewhere in regional New South Wales, and she mentioned something about sex work. Like she said, Oh, have you ever taken money for something before? You know, can't remember the, the framing of the question. And I was like, maybe, have you? She was like yes. And I was like, we're best friends we're best friends! Let's talk about it. Let's like plan everything. And so we came up with all these plans that when we'd go and do these promotions out in the country that like we might like meet some guys and like, you know, take them to a room and all of this but we always chickened out. So that was my first sort of experience of meeting someone that was on the same level as me regarding that sort of work. Julie moved on with her life and and didn't sort of engage in the industry much more from then I think she did a little bit here and there, but she she mostly has gone on to a really fulfilling career elsewhere. But it stayed with me and when a new brothel opened in about must have been 2013 or so--Actually, no, it must have been before that anyway, in the you know, early part of that decade. She sent me a message with a link to it on Gumtree and she said, Look, there's this new brothel opening like I think it would be really cool and I was like, are you gonna join me? And she said, maybe, but I went for it. So I was the only worker that they had for months. So it was just me for a long time.
Jenna Love 9:47
Wow. Okay, so even working in a brothel doesn't guarantee you're gonna have--
Holly Harte 9:51
Exactly. It was just me. And I was pretty raw. I had no idea what I was doing, but I just sort of winged it and another worker came in, and she was in her 40s. And I think she had mostly only done parlour work. But she was a very quiet, reserved lady. And so we we got along, but we just didn't really, you know, click and vibe. And so it was pretty lonely for me a lot of that time, as you know, then I went on to stripping, and did a few other things. And eventually, I came back to that same brothel A few years later, and yeah built a lot of friendships there. But yeah, definitely, in that time, I did a lot of googling and I was very alone in social media never occurred to me, I never thought of Twitter. Nobody ever told me. So it was always sort of me surreptitiously telling my civilian friends what I was doing in them sort of going, oh, you know, not very impressed. And you do, you feel, it took me, that's why it took me so long to commit to the industry, because I was constantly battling the feeling of that I'm a fucking weirdo for loving this. And like, this is really there's something wrong with me. Yeah, because no one else I had no one else to relate to on that level.
Jenna Love 10:57
Yeah, it's really interesting what you said about the the brothel owner, or the manager, I think it was that said, Don't tell anyone about this. Because that's what I heard from my clients. When I was newer to the industry, they gave me two pieces of advice that I heard from a number of my clients at the time. One was don't ever charge more than $200 an hour, because you're a bigger girl. Obviously, now, I charge a lot more than that. So fuck them. But I believed that for a long time, like, I fucking believed that and fuck them. But the other piece of advice was Do not tell anyone. And I would say to them, oh, but I want to, I'm really proud of what I'm doing. And I know that I'm not doing anything wrong. And I love my work. And they would say to me, look, Jenna, I know you feel that way. But the world, you know, the world isn't ready for that. And a lot of people have a lot of judgments, blah, blah, blah. And I listened to them. And, you know, now I'm like, right, so you weren't ready for it? You had a lot of judgments, you were happy to fuck me, but you have issues with it. Because my--overwhelmingly I have been incredibly supported by the people around me. And people have been actually been very ready for it. Like people are fine. They'll cope.
Holly Harte 12:16
I think I can understand from a perspective that particularly when I was a teen, you know, people do want to protect you to some extent.
Jenna Love 12:22
Holly Harte 12:23
To some extent, sorry. And, you know, including, you know, like, it's a similar perspective my mother has that she doesn't want people to know, you know, and that a part of that is protection. Some of it is not. But you know, people--I think when you're particularly very young, they think you may not know what you're committing yourself to, you may not know what you're doing to your reputation going forward. Is this a risk you want to take by putting that out there because it is a stigmatised job. But as you clearly love it, have a passion, you're succeeding, things are going well. And this becomes a career for you. I think that there comes a point when you should embrace it. And it's a positive thing for the sex worker rights movement to show and to humanise and to embrace that career. But um, you know, so I think there's, there's a bit of both, I think there definitely, it's, you know, a lot of people's internal shame. And that's really, really disappointing. But I also can understand when a brothel owner was talking to a, possibly a little bit of a naive 18 year old girl who just wanted to suck all the dick, maybe don't tell everyone that you're sucking all the dick? Probably not, not the worst advice. So yeah
Jenna Love 13:26
Yeah, I think you're right. That's a very fair, that's a very fair assessment of the situation. But looking back, I really just want to slap those dudes. But that's my personal, you know
Holly Harte 13:38
I mean, I can understand particularly, particularly the telling you what to charge because of some arbitrary thing is...wow
Jenna Love 13:46
That's another episode. But yeah, what's--what I find very, very interesting. And what I imagine a lot of people don't know, is that almost every single time I talk about my work to a new group of people, or I post about it on Facebook, or whatever, people come out of the woodwork. And so the first example of this was many years ago, the first time I ever tried broaching the subject with civvies, or sitting around with a group of friends at one of their houses. And I started talking about what I'd been doing. And this was when I was newish to the industry. And I was like, loving it. And I was like, Guys, guys, I fucking, I found gold. This like, it's fantastic. And they did not react very well. They weren't outwardly cruel or anything like that, but they were uncomfortable. They clearly wanted to change the subject, and it just got weird. And, you know, the flow on effect of that was that those friendships don't really exist anymore. But what was interesting was that when I got home, the roommate of the person who was hosting the event, had sent me a private message on Facebook, and said, hey, I've been really struggling with cash, we were all uni students at the time. I'm really struggling. And I've actually been thinking about doing that sort of thing. And I hope this isn't inappropriate, I'm sorry, I was kind of eavesdropping blah, blah, blah. And I just thought, you know, like, I imagine after I left, the people left there probably said some negative stuff about me and my work and whatever. And she would have heard that. And that's, and they had no idea, you know, and now every time I post on Facebook, about my work, on my personal Facebook this is, obviously, I get a message from at least one person. And they're one of the following three, either it's somebody saying, Oh, I actually do sex work, or I've, I've done it in the past. And like, thank you so much for speaking out about it. I thought I was alone. The second one is people who say, I really, I'm fascinated, I would love to be a sex worker, like, can you tell me more? What do you think? Can I get into it? Can it whatever. The third one, I think is actually the most common is my, my friend, my sister, my cousin, my, whatever, is a sex worker, or has been doing only fans or whatever. I'm the only person who knows they are going through hard times. They're really, you know, terrified of people finding out about their job. I feel like they really need support. So can you can you put me in the right direction or whatever. And of course, my response is always like, holy fuck, give them my number. Like, let's get them into the community, just let's have a conversation. Number one, connect them with another sex worker. Like that is the most important thing, in my opinion that you can do. But I just think that it's interesting, because I have so many of these conversations. And this is one of the reasons why I'm so passionate about being out about my work. And when with my husband, I--when we first started being like, okay, we're going to tell people, we're going to be honest about it. At first, our agreement was always like, but only if someone really asks, so if somebody would say to me, like, what do you do for work? I'd be like, Oh, I run my own business. And then they'd be like, in what industry? I'd be like okay, cool. Well, look, you've asked, so I'm going to tell you, and that came from a place of me not wanting to make them uncomfortable, because some people are fucking weird about sex and whatever. And it's gotten to the point now, where I'm like, actually, I, it's, I don't care how uncomfortable it makes you. Because the fact is that it exists. And I don't care, whether you like that it exists or not, it just is the reality. And the fact that I have all these conversations with people, and then every fucking time somebody privately messages me, and is like, I'm one too, you know, and I, I just wish, like, obviously, I can't say, oh, blah, blah, is and blah, blah is and blah, blah, blah is. But when I come across people that say, Oh, it's not normal, though, is it? I'm like, Well, actually, actually, there's a lot of people doing it in all different ways and to different degrees. And not everyone's like a career whore, the way I sort of consider myself but I just wish people knew how many people were doing it. Because then all these people that have contacted me and said, oh, you know, my friend is doing it, and she's on her own. All those people could connect so much easier, you know?
Holly Harte 18:20
Hence the name of the podcast.
Jenna Love 18:21
Holly Harte 18:22
Somebody You Love is a sex worker. And you probably don't even know it, you know?
Jenna Love 18:27
Yeah. I mean, the one negative about being so kind of passionately out about my work is that wherever I go, turns into a fucking conversation about sex work. And it's just, I mean, I'm like, Look, that's fine. I'm like, sometimes it really gets to me. But I'm like this is I'm prepared to do this. For the sake of all those people who reach out and who are on their own.
Holly Harte 18:47
I have the opposite experience. People don't care. No matter like, people, just when I say it, they go oh, yeah, cool. Oh, I don't know if they're being polite, which is like, cool. But also sometimes I'm like, really? Could be a Canberra thing. I don't know.
Jenna Love 19:00
Wow, that's really interesting. This is again, another episode. But the amount of times I've been sitting in the in the doctor's clinic, and we've spent most of the time talking about my work. And I'm like, anyway, do you want to diagnose me? Because I'm actually paying for this time, like...
Holly Harte 19:15
Jenna Love 19:16
It's just a bit exhausting. But anyway, my point is, but the amount of times somebody says to me, oh, I've never met a sex worker. And every time I say, yeah, you probably have actually, and it just, I just wish more people knew. That's all.
Holly Harte 19:32
So after my experience where I worked in a brothel by myself for a few months, a few years later, I ended up doing reception at another brothel in Canberra for about a year. And I made friends with quite a few of the workers and really good friends. And one of them now is still one of my best friends, which is really cool. There's such a good vibe. I suppose when you're working in a brothel. It's a really strange place. It becomes run of the mill when you work there all the time. They are weird places, there's a weird energy, there's, you know, sometimes really weird people coming in in the night. Because it isn't, they usually open in the night, sometimes people are drunk. You know, obviously, you get a lot of the normal sort of average clients, but you tend to see the stranger things between 3am and 5am. And there's a lot of that solidarity that builds in a room of women who are generally women who are hanging out for 12/14 hours at a time, and have these intimate experiences with clients and sometimes really unusual experiences with clients. So that's really cool. Then I ended up working full service again, back in the brothel, where I'd worked by myself. And we used to have the best times ever, we used to bring board games in, half the time you couldn't even get us to go into a booking because we were just having such a fun time together. And I'm still friends with quite a few of those people now. So there's definitely, particularly in the brothels, I found because you're physically in that proximity for hours and hours, a lot of opportunities to make friends. And there will be some people you just wouldn't get along with. But for the most part, you just--it wouldn't be an actual conflict. You just work--it just, you know, there to understand what each other's going through and to get it done.
Jenna Love 21:14
Can I ask were, in the places you've worked, have they always had like I hear it referred to as like the girls room?
Holly Harte 21:22
Yeah. Yeah. Always a girls room. Yeah. So yeah, you'd have the working rooms obviously the intro room or in one of the brothels. There was three intro rooms. The Bravo where I did reception had a massive girls room and then like dorms that you could sleep in. It was still though, dirty like it when I say dirty I mean, it was just run down in disrepair. The rooms in which you'd actually do your service in and work in were well looked after. But at the back where the girls had to spend 14 hours was filthy. We all smoked cigarettes in there all night, I was a pack a day smoker at the time I was smoking all night, it was just a bit bit hectic, the other--the brothel that then I was doing full service in, it was actually meant to be a working room. But it was a very small working room. I guess they built the brothel and then realised they didn't have anywhere for the workers to sit in between bookings. So there was a shower in the middle of it, these lockers which were actually filing cabinets all like shoved to the corners. And then we'd all just sort of pile on the two couches or on the floor. Like there was just no room for us. We'd all sort of on top of each other. But like I said, we all got on so well and became really close. So it was fine.
Jenna Love 22:28
Yeah so the only brothels I've worked in have been where you get assigned a room for the day. And that's your room. So there isn't a communal space.
Holly Harte 22:40
Jenna Love 22:40
Well, that--yeah, I didn't know until I've spoken to other people that it's quite different. And most of them like normally there's somewhere you can go. Like, for instance, at one of them, there was like an outdoor area where the smokers would go hang out. And I'm not a smoker, but I'd often just go out there just to hang out with them because it was you know, if it was a slow day or whatever. But yeah, I mean, I you know, I was studying at the time, and I found it really useful to just be in the room. And once I--when I didn't have bookings, I was just studying and then when I got a booking I'd put the laptop away and do the booking and so I found that really good. And I guess I kind of was a little bit of a hermit in that sense. But yeah, I've never had that, that social brothel experience that I hear so many workers talk about.
Jenna Love 22:40
That's a shame because it's really nice. It was really special.
Jenna Love 22:58
Yeah, I feel like I kind of missed out but I also never ever want to go back to a brothel in my life. So I don't care.
Holly Harte 23:31
I romanticise that experience and I think, yeah, I'd love to go back and have that experience with the girls again and or hang out. But also, I don't want to do brothel work again, it was just, you know, volume, you know, quantity over quality and I just don't think I have the energy for that. I remember sometimes the receptionist at the last brothel that I was at would let me go and because you know, everyone who's listening probably knows sleep is one of my number one hobbies, I would go and sleep in one of the working rooms and I'd be like, I'll just take a nap. She'd come and wake me up. She'd be like, holly this client is here. Do you want to intro and I'd be like na it's okay. Like, it's yeah, just too--it's such hard work. And there would be I mean, it's hard work now what we do privately, but it was a different kind of intensity in a brothel. So, you know, I missed that camaraderie in that regard. But also, I've got beautiful friends now. And my work life balance is so much better.
Jenna Love 24:23
So there's all different kinds of relationships with our peers that we have in the industry. And I feel like it's, again, I think this is something that people from the outside may not see the complexity of it. So you know, we have people who like, obviously, Holly and I are good friends. We are also co-workers. So we work together and we do bookings together. And obviously, we're creating this podcast together, which is another weird kind of offshoot, as a result of us doing bookings together. We have been intimate with each other. But we're not--I wouldn't call us lovers. You know, we're not in a romantic or sexual relationship.
Holly Harte 24:59
Jenna Love 25:01
Am I breaking this to you right now?
Holly Harte 25:03
This is one way to find out I guess.
Jenna Love 25:05
Holly Harte 25:09
I think Mr. Love is surprised.
Jenna Love 25:12
Yeah he thinks we're on the way to marriage, me and you.
Holly Harte 25:17
Exactly Yes. No, we're not lovers
Jenna Love 25:19
We're not. And we're, like some people may see that obviously, we're very flirtatious with each other, and we're very comfortable having sex with each other. But that's because we're co workers. And I guess in any other industry, you don't have sex with your co workers? Well, it's advised that you don't have sex with your co workers, you're not paid to have sex with your co workers. Unless you're doing it on the Australian taxpayer's time.
Holly Harte 25:44
Been there done that, I have done that.
Jenna Love 25:47
Okay, that's a story for another time. But this, yeah, we like, in order to market ourselves, we have to put out there that we're very comfortable with each other sexually, which we are. But that doesn't mean that we're actually in a romantic relationship. And then you get sex workers who are in relationships with each other, because there's a lot of people in the industry who have given up on dating civvies, basically, and they're like, not, I'm just dating whores for the rest of my life or marrying them or whatever. So then they actually will sort of advertise as a couple, or they may not, it may not be known that they are a couple, or you know, whatever. And I think that that's, you know, it can become really tricky, because, you know, if their relationship is to come to an end, all of a sudden, you know, their private life has been in the public domain. Like it's because they've advertised, they've capitalised on the fact that they are a couple, and then they have to deal with everyone being like... I imagine, I've not been in this situation, but you'd get people sort of being supportive and being like, oh, gosh, I've heard about the breakup and whatever. But you'd also get people I imagine being really disappointed as well. Like they're going through a breakup, and they'd be like, Oh, no, you two broke up. I love you guys together. I'm really sad. I can't book you together. I really want to have a threesome and you're like, dude, I'm heartbroken.
Holly Harte 27:06
Mmm. Or wanting intimate details of what happened. Yeah, they feel like they they're entitled to that person. Yeah.
Holly Harte 27:12
Which, yeah, you've put it out there. But you haven't put it out there. You've you've put it out there for in a marketing sense, but it you know, that line gets, it's tricky. And then I think there's like there are people in the industry who I spend a lot of time with, who I do like organising and advocacy with, and I've never come into contact with their work persona. So there are some people who I don't even know what their work name is. I don't know if they have work social media or who the--actually there was somebody I discovered a few weeks ago, because of one word in their, like, in their bio. I was like, Oh, you're like you're a friend of mine. I know you. But I didn't realise that was their, that was their work profile. Yeah, so it's just... there's so much complexity. And there are some people who work very closely with obviously, you know, I do stuff with Scarlet Alliance, and I volunteer a lot of my time in the industry. And it would probably be kind of strange for me to do a booking with one of those people. Because we, you know, we spend our time together looking through like legislation and sorting out minutes, like we're not, you know, it's not--it's not a sexy time
Holly Harte 28:26
Doesn't that sort of stuff turn you on? Isn't that your kink?
Jenna Love 28:31
I mean like a little bit. But it would be kind of odd. And then you know, I might share their stuff online, because I'm like, this person is fucking awesome. And they are doing so much great stuff for our community. I adore them. They are so generous. They've helped me, they've helped my friends. But I know nothing about their work persona, or what they're like in bookings. So I often will like, yeah, share their stuff and be like, this person is so great. But I don't know what they're like, as a sex worker. I don't really care.
Holly Harte 29:01
Yeah, making friendships as a private worker in the industry is really interesting, because a lot of it does come down to doubles. Sometimes when people are touring, they'll go to one town and they you know, you'll sort of say, hey, you're coming. Well, you know, I never go anywhere. But you know, when other workers come to Canberra, I'll sort of say, hey, do you have time for a coffee? Or can we go for lunch and, you know, people that you've sort of vibed with online or that you think you might get on with and you might do that. But a lot of the time, it also just ends up that a particular client is like, hey, XYZ is coming to Canberra, I'd love to do a double, how do you feel about it? And that's sometimes a really cool opportunity to meet new workers.
Jenna Love 29:35
And it is a great way to meet someone. You go headfirst.
Holly Harte 29:39
Exactly. And to find that you immediately click that's just such a fun experience. When a client does bring you together, or when you've already sort of talked and you've said oh well let's see if when he comes to town if anyone wants to book us and maybe you'll put it out there. You know, I think I did that with Kiki back in the day and I was like, I really like this girl's vibe. She's got about 1000 pets. I think we're gonna get on and clients booked us together, we straightaway became friends. You know, people like I'd met Kate King before, we sort of had gotten along. And then, you know, clients booked us together and the sexual chemistry was wonderful. So I think that's really cool. You know, that's a really good example of that situation. When you have a double with someone and you go, not only are we getting along as people, but the sexual side of things goes really smoothly, there's no awkwardness. And yeah, that's a fun bonus. But having said that, there can be awkward situations when doubles are involved. So I did have an experience at one point where a client, I don't think the client had mentioned to me that they had already been speaking to this worker, and they wanted to double with this worker, and they'd sort of mostly set it up. And they sort of just dropped it on me and said, oh, you know, what, sort of, I don't think they said, we're going to double, but would you like to do a double with this person on this day, blah, blah, blah. And I sort of went, oh, okay. It wasn't somebody that I was particularly fond of. The person hadn't done anything, particularly to me, I just wasn't really keen on their vibe. And then I just felt a little bit too awkward to sort of say no, so we went ahead, and we did it. And the booking was fine. I still to this day have not mentioned to that client how awkward that was. But it's a little bit of a position that you can get put in sometimes as a worker, when a client is really keen on seeing two workers that they've admired online or something, and just sort of mashing them together. And, you know, so it's a little bit of a hard one to navigate. Because we will recommend if you ask a worker, who do you like doing doubles with, we can tell you straight away, if you ask us, who would you like to do doubles with? We can probably give you a little list as well.
Jenna Love 31:45
Oh, yeah, we've all got we've all got a list of people we list after.
Holly Harte 31:49
We've all got our dream workers, but there can be that awkward situation. I'm not against people suggesting people to me, because that's how I've met some wonderful workers. But I suppose it just is part of working in this industry that sometimes, and I guess that's where, you know, you can say no, we can always say no, but yeah, definitely can result in some awkward situation.
Jenna Love 32:10
Yeah, I recently had an awkward situation where a client that I had only recently begun seeing, asked me if I would be up for doing a double with another worker that he sees, and he's been seeing her for quite some time. So she's kind of his regular. And I'm newer to his life, I guess. And he was like, would you be up for this? And me and that worker had actually had a falling out. And it was to the point where I was--eurgh I don't know how to say it. I felt like they were perhaps a bit of a dangerous person and somebody that I wasn't comfortable being in that environment with. But obviously, is his regular. So obviously, he's very comfortable with her, which is cool. We all have different experiences with people. But I, it was, I had to really carefully word my response to him, because I didn't want--I enjoyed him as a client. And I didn't want to come across as though I was, you know, a drama queen, or "oh, no, I don't work with that person or that person". You know, I didn't want to be difficult. But I genuinely--
Holly Harte 33:19
That's what I had, yes.
Jenna Love 33:21
Yeah, I genuinely had a concern and thought that it wasn't appropriate for the two of us to and I don't think that she would have said yes to it, either. But he had come to me and asked, and I was like, oh, yeah, I don't want to be difficult and what do I say to him? It's not appropriate for me to share our private business with him at all. It's certainly not appropriate for me to say "actually, she bla bla bla bla." But, you know, so I can't remember the wording I ended up with but I said, I think I said "her and I had a bit of a falling out a while ago. And I reckon it's probably not the best idea" and you know, and we did we end up finding someone else, and he does still see me. So that's really nice. But I was like, I might lose this client, because it could--and especially if they've got a rapport built up. He could go back and say, "Oh, well, Jenna said she didn't want to do it with you". And then she goes, "Well, let me tell you about Jenna". And then I could potentially lose him, you know, which would suck. So it's yeah, awkward situations, for sure. But he did all the right things, he asked me and that's that's all he could have done. The other thing that can be somewhat awkward is rates. Obviously, we all set our own rates, which is one of the things that's excellent about this industry. And so we often have different rates to each other. And I've never had an issue with that. I've always been comfortable with "Well, this is what my rate is, this is what I've decided an hour of my time is worth. If somebody else has decided that hour of their time is worth more. That's cool. That's what they get paid. This is what I get paid". And I've done a lot of doubles bookings where I've been paid $50, $100, $150 less than the other worker. And I've got absolutely no issue with that. That's fine. That's the rate that I've decided I'm comfortable with. I have also had a situation, there's somebody I work with, who charges substantially higher than I do. And she insists that we charge the client, the combination of our rates, so say I'm, to make it easy. Let's say I'm $300. And she's $700. She says, we'll charge $1,000. And we're each getting $500, which I was, at first, I was like, "You do not have to do that. I'm happy with the 300" or whatever. But I think it's very bloody cool of her. So good on her. But that's not necessary. But yeah, I've always been comfortable if somebody's being paid a bit more than me. Or even if I'm being paid a bit more than them, I'm okay with that. But recently, I had a booking and I worked out just before going to the booking, it was a doubles booking, that the other provider was being paid three times as much as I was, I think was just over three times, actually.
Holly Harte 35:57
Jenna Love 35:59
And yeah, you know, I don't want to be petty, and I don't, you know, but it made me feel...I can't describe how it made me feel. I had this sinking pit in my stomach, like I felt I don't know, undervalued, I guess. And I was like, we're doing the same amount of work here. You know, and it's sort of it... Look it was only, it was this year. So it's--I haven't, I haven't come to any conclusion about that situation. But it made me rethink my philosophy on it. I know that there are some workers who insist on price matching, that you will pay the rate of the most expensive worker to both workers.
Holly Harte 36:39
I have before. I've done that
Jenna Love 36:40
You've done that?
Holly Harte 36:41
Yeah. Yes. It depends on the situation. Sometimes if it's a regular client of mine, and they want to see a worker who's a bit more expensive, I sort of let it go, whatever. I'll just take my usual rate. But generally, yeah, I think whoever the more expensive rate is, it should be matched. I just think that's fair. I just think it feels really shitty when you're the, you know, the lower charging worker, and you're sort of that it's, you know, you're getting paid less for your time. Just feels a little bit mean.
Jenna Love 37:07
Yeah. Generally, I've been really, really lucky with doubles bookings, there's only two situations I can think of that weren't great. Usually it's a bloody awesome time. And I just love them, usually. But one of the ones was years ago. And the whole I mean, the whole booking was like I could, I could literally record a whole episode explaining the booking because it was very bizarre. But the part that really sticks in my mind was that the other worker, basically spent, like a lot of time in the booking talking about how fat I was, which was for obvious reasons, very uncomfortable for me. And she was somebody who had lost a lot of weight. So she kept comparing the two of us and said, like, she kept saying things like, "Oh, my God were basically identical, we--people wouldn't be able to tell us apart if I was still fat", and things like that. So it wasn't even, it wasn't so much being like, "hey, Jenna, you're fat". But it was just like, "oh, when I was fat, like you", which was just really, really unpleasant. And I can't remember because it was years ago, I can't remember if she ever said it in front of the client or not. And I honestly can't really work out which one's worse. Like, I don't know whether it's worse if she was sort of trying to say it on the sly to get inside my head. Or if she was saying it in front of the client, and just like ripping me to shreds in front of him. I don't know, it just wasn't very nice. So that's definitely my, I would say my worst doubles booking experience working with somebody else in the industry. And then the other one was a situation where I had a really great regular in another state, which meant we, you know, don't get to see each other very often, at the moment. Haven't seen him for like two years. And a worker who lived in that area saw that I was coming to town, and was really pushing me to do doubles with her. She seemed really lovely. So I was like, yeah, sure, whatever. But it was really coming from her. And we sort of made plans and then this client was like, Yeah, cool. I'm interested in that. So it was like great, his first ever threesome. It was very exciting. We made plans for her... So I think it was a three hour booking with me and the client and she was going to join for the final hour. And then I had left some space afterwards and my tours, you know, they tend to be very, very busy. My time there is quite valuable but I'd left some time afterwards to spend with her and perhaps make some content together and whatever. So like an hour into the booking I go to the bathroom and I have a look at my phone. And I've got a message from her saying that she's not coming and she hadn't contacted the client at all, she'd just messaged me. So I had this you know real sinking feeling and I had to walk back into the bedroom and--like I was like this isn't--I shouldn't have to tell him this. She should have told him this, you know, so I had to say to him, you know, this thing we've been hyping up for the last hour, actually, it's not gonna happen - this big, this first threesome of yours that I was going to share with you. And, you know, I mean, it's not the end of the world, we ended up having a nice time. But especially the information coming partway through the booking was difficult, because, you know, we plan out our bookings to extent you kind of manage the time to make it work, especially when there's more than two people involved. There's some practicalities that you've got to take into consideration. And yeah, I mean, the thing is, like, you know, things happen. And I wouldn't hold anything against somebody if they had, you know, got into a car accident on the way or something like, there are some things that you just see, you know, they just happen, but in this case, I mean, somebody else was talking about how they'd had a wild night the night before, and all this stuff. And I was like, okay, well, that seems...yep, cool. Great. Whatever. So yeah, they're my my two sort of negative experiences. But on the whole, I found that, like, doing bookings with other workers has really made me have like, so much respect for them, like seeing someone else in their element doing their thing. I'm like, "Fuck, you're good at this".
Holly Harte 41:16
Jenna Love 41:17
Yeah. And I really, I really love that. And it really brings our friendship closer, because you see them putting in the hard work. And you're like, yes, yes, get it.
Holly Harte 41:28
Something else that we wanted to bring to your attention is that retweets aren't endorsements. So I've had this problem before. I will retweet people that I think are just cool people, people, I think they have a beautiful photo today. You know, there's a million reasons why I might retweet someone, but I may not know anything about their service, about what they're liking a booking. And so you know, I don't want to discourage anything but I also just want to make sure that people understand that when we retweet other people, we are not necessarily endorsing them. We don't know, often what they're like in a service. I have no problem with my clients, saying, you know, is there someone that you can recommend, and I can definitely let you know, you know, privately of other people that my clients have said they've had a wonderful time with locally or something like that, that's fine. I'm always happy to do that. But just to reminder, a friendly reminder that when we retweet someone, that's just because we think they have great content, because we like their vibe, and it's no guarantee of any sort of service.
Jenna Love 42:28
Yeah, I've had a few situations where clients have come to me and said, "I saw blah blah". And I've been like, "oh, cool, did you have a good time?" And they're like, "um, you know, no". Either like, they were very unprofessional, or they felt like their boundaries were pushed even or, you know, all sorts of different things. And I've been like, "oh, okay, like, that sucks", and they've been like, "but you're friends with them, right?" And I'm like, "Oh, no. Like, what? I've never met that person". But because I interact with them on social media, and because I think a lot of sex workers are the same, and that we, we really try to support each other and if we know someone's going through a bit of a hard time or whatever, we will share their stuff. And we'll try and get it out there. But it doesn't mean that we know anything about what they're like in a booking, and it doesn't mean that we're, yeah, we may not even be friends with them. We just are in the same industry. And we try to look out for each other. And I think like, yeah, you touched on saying like when clients have sort of recommended other people or whatever. And I think people have different opinions about this. And we often get asked, like, what do you think about discussing other providers in a booking? And I know for some people, it's a blanket, no, like "you do not discuss other providers, that's completely not okay". In my opinion, I find it actually incredibly useful.
Holly Harte 43:45
Jenna Love 43:46
And I think that like, as long as it's not, I don't want it to turn into a bitch fest. I'm not interested in ragging on another provider. But if you had a really great time with somebody, or you know, somebody was like a real laugh, somebody you think I'd get on really well with, somebody you thought was really similar to me, like that kind of information is really, really helpful. Because then when I get my regular saying, "Oh, I'm going to blah, blah, city. Do you know anyone there?" I can go--either I can go, "yes, I know, this person. They're great. We have sex all the time. And they're very, very good". Or I can go "Look, I don't know this person. But we have a bunch of clients in common, and they all rave about them. So that's perhaps worth you know, giving it a go". So I find that kind of information, you know, really, really useful. And if I hear negative stuff about people, I'm not going to steer anyone away. But I'm obviously not going to bring that person's name up as a recommendation to somebody who, you know, is a really great client to me, they may well go and see that person off their own bat, and then they can make up their own mind about them. But yeah, I'm obviously not going to suggest somebody who I've heard not so great things about.
Jenna Love 44:56
Do you miss the free and affordable ads and social networks without all the anti-sex rhetoric?
Holly Harte 45:01
Assembly Four is a team of sex workers and technologists from Melbourne, Australia, aiming to bring back free and fair advertising and social spaces to the sex working community.
Jenna Love 45:10
Stepping away from the clunky design of traditional platforms, their two products Tryst.link and Switter.at are refreshing and well needed changes in both presentation and mission.
Holly Harte 45:22
And both are free to join and open to all.
Jenna Love 45:25
You can find both of our profiles on Tryst, and I love how it is so clearly designed by sex workers.
Holly Harte 45:31
Yep. And I love how straightforward and easy it is to use and how much they clearly support the sex working community.
Jenna Love 45:37
And also how responsive they are when it comes to feedback and customer service.
Holly Harte 45:41
Check out their website assemblyfour.com (four the word, not the number) for more info.
Jenna Love 45:54
I thought for our misconception this week we should cover sex workers not paying taxes. And that's because Holly went to her accountant yesterday.
Holly Harte 46:03
I certainly did.
Jenna Love 46:04
*laughs* certainly did. I think you can tell from the tone of her voice that she definitely does pay taxes.
Holly Harte 46:13
Yesterday I was telling my accountant about how I was raving about her on Twitter, just how much I adore her. She's wonderful. She's actually Canadian. And she's relatively young. That sounds bad. But she's you know, I just feel like I relate to her a little bit. But she's like me if I was a professional lady, not like some naughty sex worker. And I said, "Oh, you know, people will actually have had a few people ask, like, who is my accountant?" And she said, she said, "Well, you're my only sex worker client. So this is sort of all been new for me". Yeah. And that was sort of cool. Because she's been so professional the whole time. And she's had so much information on our industry. She's done all this research just to help me. And I would have never known that she's not had a sex worker client before me. So that was really cool. But yeah, I definitely pay tax. In fact, yesterday, I realised I had made a mistake. And I actually owe an extra two and a half or $3,000 this year that I hadn't expected and that's a nice little surprise. I was looking at the paperwork and I said "so I pay this amount and then that two and a half is something else?" and she goes "No, no, you pay this amount and then you got to pay the two" and I went "oh shit that's... additional". So wasn't a great surprise. But look, that's part and parcel with making a living.
Jenna Love 47:28
That's I always say "the only thing worse than having to pay tax is not having to pay tax".
Holly Harte 47:33
Jenna Love 47:34
But um, yeah, look, I find we come across this so much online. You know, whenever somebody brings up the conversation, "do you think that sex work should be legalised" is what they normally say, or decriminalised, and they are always bloody at least 20% of the comments, saying, "yes, it should be regulated and they should be taxed". And I'm like, "do you really think that we're not getting taxed?" Because regardless of whether it is legal or illegal, we have income, whether we're declaring it as sex work income, or any other kind of income, like the government is--they don't like us getting away with not paying taxes. We all know that.
Holly Harte 48:11
They do data matching, if there's money going in your account, they will know you need to pay tax on that. You cannot survive--people go, "Oh, you just keep cash" well you cannot pay your bills without an account, without online banking. You can't--like there's so much you can't do with cash.
Jenna Love 48:19
You can't get a loan, you can't buy something like a car or a house or something that's, you know, quite expensive.
Holly Harte 48:30
100%. It's very hard.
Jenna Love 48:30
And I think that's the other thing. A lot of people go, "Oh, well, it's because you're paid in cash". And I'm like, I don't know if you're aware of this, but it's actually 2021. And a lot of my clients don't pay in cash, like I get paid--so much of my income is direct into my bank. So obviously, I have to declare that, as you said, data matching. I've kind of got no choice. And I think something that a lot of these people don't consider is that where sex work is criminalised, in my opinion, if anything, they're paying more tax than they should be. Because if they're not able to be open about their profession, then they aren't able to claim deductions. So because where I live, it's completely decriminalised. The tax department knows that I'm a hooker. And a lot of people don't want them to know that for very valid reasons, but they do know that I am. And so I claim dildos and I claim lingerie and I claim all these things, that if I put down that I was a consultant or that I was a photographer or that I was working in marketing any of these general kind of terms that people often will kind of default to, I can't claim dildos, you know, which means that people that are living in criminalised locations, they're still paying tax on their income, but then they can't deduct. So it's like if anything, sex workers are paying more tax than they should be. So shut the fuck up with all this #thotaudit bullshit. And I think there's also this assumption that the reason that we're paid in cash is because we don't want to be paid electronically when the reality is that the world makes it very difficult for us to be paid electronically. We're not able to get EFTPOS merchant facilities. It's incredibly difficult and very expensive to have a bank account which doesn't lead clients directly to your legal name and address. And our job is against the terms and conditions of, well, almost every company ever, but particularly payment companies like PayPal, Square, Stripe, MasterCard, and Visa, like these companies delete our accounts, often taking any money that is left in them. And you know, this happens to me, I'm speaking from personal experience, and I'm someone who is, you know, privileged enough to be able to work legally, to pay my taxes, to receive government assistance if I need it. And the thing is, like the financial discrimination that we face often means that we are given the choice of either being safe or working legally. So if you're worried about us declaring our income, maybe work on making it possible for us to actually have an income.
Holly Harte 51:05
This week's Shit People Say segment is one I'm really excited about. Because I laughed so much at this exchange this week. Jenna was contacted by a very interesting individual on Twitter this week, I'll throw to her.
Jenna Love 51:20
I love the way you're so--"a very interesting individual". Yeah, so I got a private message. And it was a dick pic. Let's just put that out there. Because, you know, half the time it is. And the the caption on it was, "well, here you go then, just a chub cuz I don't really work anymore...", and I was like, what? Like, it sounds like like he felt coerced into sending me the dick pic, which is a weird dynamic. That's different to what--like I was like, "Oh, I don't want this, like no one wants this". Okay, so I just responded, "why did you send me that?" Because I'm fascinated. I always ask, I like to engage them. Not always but sometimes. I said, "Why did you send me that?" And he said, "Sorry, my bad. I misjudged your response to a tweet. I deeply apologise, I misunderstood. God, I'm a fool, so sorry". And I said, "What tweet?", I was like what are you? Like, what is happening? What are you talking about? And he said, "tit for tat". So then I went and looked at my main feed and I had posted a picture of my boob. And I said, "a tit for your timeline". Because, fuck coming up with captions all the time is bloody difficult, okay? So don't judge me. I said a tit for your timeline. And this person had commented, "would you like a tat for your tit?" Now when I read that--I have a tattoo under the tit that was showing in the picture. God this feels so weirdly like descriptive porn. So I thought when he said would you like a tat for your tit, like I thought he was referencing the tat on my tit, but also we get, you know, we get a lot of comments and we go through and like them. Like you don't always really fully digest what somebody's saying. So apparently, he took me liking him saying, "Would you like a tat for your tit" as me requesting a dick pic?
Holly Harte 53:23
What universe would that mean that on? Like, I've been thinking about it like daily. I was in the shower this morning. And I was laughing (or was it last night?). I was giggling because I was like, In what world would tit for tat you'd go "Oh, that means they want a penis pic". I just like that--it baffles me.
Jenna Love 53:37
Well like if anything you would think it meant a picture of his chest, wouldn't you? If any, if it's tit for tat.
Holly Harte 53:43
Jenna Love 53:44
Well, no, you still wouldn't. Yeah, but it's like, what it's not a photo of my vag. So why like...?
Holly Harte 53:48
Yeah, yeah. I just--baffled.
Jenna Love 53:49
Anyway he said "again, apologies, my bad. It's all on me". And I said, "Oh, okay. Well, look, I appreciate the apology". And at that time, I was like, okay, it's like a genuine mistake, whatever. Like, it's not a big deal. And then he responded again, and said, "Please accept my apology. I'm not a dick pic guy, not my thing. I swear. And it's true. My stuff doesn't work anymore... I'm 56, it happens"
Holly Harte 54:19
Who asked? Like, at what point was that--why do you keep mentioning your penis? I haven't asked. I have no interest. I didn't want the picture. I don't want details on how it works. Don't give me any more information.
Jenna Love 54:31
And also saying "it happens". Like I so I responded. "I mean, I know that, I'm a sex worker". Like I like I see a lot of dicks and a lot of them don't get hard. That's really standard dude.
Holly Harte 54:44
Jenna Love 54:45
but I just thought because I said okay, well look, I appreciate the apology, which I thought was really fucking nice of me because you know, I just been sent a fucking dick pic. And then he continued on, started talking about his dick. I said, "Yeah, I know that". Then he said "lol have fun with what you have, adieu" well he--I mean, I think that's what he was trying to say. And then I went and looked, and he had sent me that dick pic within one minute of him making the comment. So he made the comment, I liked the comment, and he sent me a picture of his penis, all within the space of a minute. He also took the time to get as much chub as he couldd, which as he continues to tell me is not a full chub or whatever. So like, that's a lot of things to happen in the space of a minute. So then I was like, fuck it, if you're gonna keep coming back, I'm gonna respond to you. And I said, quote, "not a dick pic guy, but you sent one within a minute of your comment" with the rolling eyes emoji. And he said, "No, seriously, that's the only time my junk has been on the net", like alright, whatever. And so I didn't respond again. I was like, I've got my dig in. That's fine. Then a few minutes later, I get another message from him, which is "please just let this go. I misunderstood. I made a bad choice. You're a wonderful strong self actuated person of strength and conviction. I made a faux pas, my bad, why vilify me?" And like BABE
Holly Harte 56:07
Jenna Love 56:08
This is not what vilification is. So I just responded, I said, "mate I let it go. I said that I accepted your apology. You're the one who felt the need to keep talking about your dick". And he responded back again, "Jesus, no, there's nothing to talk about there." Like, he's still talking about his fucking dick! And it's like, I don't know who--like I have no idea who this person is. I have absolutely no frame of reference for anything. And he's just ugh, and it just--I don't know, it's one of those situations where like, it's fine. If he made a mistake, whatever. It doesn't matter to me. But I'm like, for starters, you are very quick. You're very quick off the mark. Like I, you know, my husband was with me when I was reading through this. And he was like, "I've never said a dick pic to someone in my life. And I wouldn't, it would take a lot more than a like on a comment for me to instantly just whip it out, take a photo and send it" Like if you're not that kind of person, you're not really ready for that, you know, but and then he just had to, like insisted on telling me about his his dick not getting hard. I don't give a shit man. And then gets like upset that I vilified him? Because I pointed out that what he did was like not great. And like if that's the worst oppression you faced in your life, babe. UGH.
Jenna Love 57:38
It's time for question of the week. Very soon, we will be recording our second ever bonus episode for our patrons, which will involve us answering a whole bunch of questions. But unless you are one of our $10 or up patrons, you're not going to get to hear that. So you just have to hear us answer one question every week. So sad. You should probably go join the Patreon. Our question for this week is "What is your favourite memory featuring the other host?" Holly, what's your favourite memory featuring me?
Holly Harte 58:14
Oh, this isn't even recording, is it? You're just milking me for validation?
Jenna Love 58:18
Holly Harte 58:20
Tell me you love me. Um, my favourite memory of Jenna is, and I've already tweeted about this, so everyone already knows, but it was when Jenna was sleeping over and we sat up until like bullshit o'clock talking to like three o'clock or something just like okay, we should probably go to bed, we had a photo shoot like the next day, which we had to get ready for. I think that was the night, up for hours. And then we're like, "Okay, let's go to bed" toddled off to our bedrooms. And then like 30 minutes later, she's like, texting me like, I think that was the beginning of us having these non stop texting thing ever since where we've just not--
Jenna Love 58:51
I think I was sending you cat memes, wasn't I?
Holly Harte 58:54
I think you were sending me bad eyebrow memes
Jenna Love 58:56
Holly Harte 59:00
Cuz we'd realised we both have a thing about eyebrows. So that was--that was that and I was like, I rolled over in bed. And I was like, "Oh, she's probably asleep". I picked up my phone and it like had a little notification. And I was like, "oh, we're friends". It was very cute.
Jenna Love 59:14
It's also what happens every single time we record an episode of the podcast.
Holly Harte 59:18
Jenna Love 59:19
We're here for a couple of hours talking to each other non stop. And then we get off the call and we're instantly texting. We just can't stop.
Holly Harte 59:27
I don't think it's like an hour of the day that we're not texting.
Jenna Love 59:32
Okay, I went a little bit of a different route with this question. It's not as lovey dovey--mine was during a booking that we had together. And Holly and I have this mutual client who i--who we both really adore. Actually, almost all I think of our mutual clients we both really adore. We got good people. But this particular client really enjoys putting things in their bottom and we are quite happy to engage in such activities. And the place where the booking was happening had this really long bathroom. So this really long like tiled section that was attached to the bedroom. Holly is laughing because she now knows what story I'm about to tell.
Holly Harte 1:00:17
I'm on board. Yeah.
Jenna Love 1:00:19
And so this client had these--had bought with them--these little like eggs. They're silicon - like rubbery, not rubber, they're silicon eggs that you--that are safe to insert. And the client quite enjoyed putting them in their bottom, and then pushing them out of their bottom, which was quite novel. And I think, just in case anyone's worried, like this client is really comfortable with butt stuff and does like a lot of cleaning. And like there was just there wasn't a hint of poop anywhere. Even my nose could not smell anything. But we had this big long bathroom. So the client was like "how about I go down one end of the bathroom, and see how far I can shoot eggs out of my ass?" and Holly and I were like, "yeah, how about you do that?"
Holly Harte 1:01:10
Jenna Love 1:01:10
Like why the fuck not? But Holly was so much more keen than I was. So I sat on the bed and like waited for the show. And so the client had put like a bunch of these eggs in it was doing one after the other. And I sat on the bed and I was like, "Oh, yes, this is a lovely show" and Holly gets down and she's trying to catch them. And this just naked--
Holly Harte 1:01:34
They're shooting across the room, bouncing on the tiles, slippery, covered in lube.
Jenna Love 1:01:39
And Holly is just like naked and going for it. And I was so impressed. Because that was just a bit--I was like, I don't want to catch them. That was just a bit too far. And it was late, we were all laughing our heads off because they were really inconsistent. And the client found that they weren't able to control--like some of them would just kind of like fall out and just drop on the floor right next to their bum. And some of them would really like shoot and Holly would be like "holy crap!". Oh my god, it was hysterical. And I've just never been like prouder of a person than watching her in that moment.
Holly Harte 1:02:21
I still don't even think that's the weirdest thing I've done, like there's, there's a lot of--we have a lot of memories like there's, like even as you're telling that story, there are more that are coming to mind. So yes, we've had some fun times, for sure.
Jenna Love 1:02:32
Yep, sure. Definitely, definitely.
Jenna Love 1:02:37
It's time for our Patreon shout outs. We have a brand new Generous Somebody who is Ellen, and our Very Generous Somebodies that we'd like to thank Lachlan, Timmy, Steve, our footstool, Spacemen Dan, Pete, Adele, Alice Grey, Big M, Scott C, Sammy Jane, Bart, Barliman, Randy Wagner, Robbie Heart, Andrew, Andy, Leo, Narnie,
Holly Harte 1:03:05
Theodoric, Natalie, Adam Smith, Mal, Bruce McDermaid, Gricey, Pedro, Ben, Dale, John the PM, Mama B, Maddy Andrews, Larry, Lesley and Celeste. Our Extremely Generous Somebodies are Aaron, Samuel and Andrew.
Jenna Love 1:03:25
Thanks so much for listening, everyone. Creating this podcast is the only thing that is keeping me tethered to reality at the moment in Sydney lockdown. Anybody who is stuck in the same position, my heart goes out to you. It's a shit time. But anyway, thanks! Please look out for us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Patreon. Our name everywhere is somebodyyoupod as in podcast. Our Patreon starts at just $3 a month, and you can get all of our episodes ad-free and a day early. Plus bonus episodes behind the scenes action, bloopers and more. Thank you for taking the time to listen to the voices of sex workers. And remember, Somebody You Love might just be a sex worker.