CW: mentions of sexualised labels for trans individuals
This week we sat down with award-winning transgender escort Danika Deep to discuss her experiences making porn, offering GFE/PSE, and being a pro-domme. She discusses working with clients with a disability, her relationship to her preferred pronouns, what it’s like being both active and passive in the bedroom, and Our Questions of the Week are all questions for Danika submitted by our patrons, and for Shit People Say she shares the story of an ill-informed haggler.
Scarlet Alliance Chuffed fund: https://chuffed.org/project/sex-worker-support
EnVilopes by Violet Macc: https://twitter.com/violetmacc_bbw
Patreon (from $3AUD/month): http://www.patreon.com/somebodyyoupod
Somebody You Love is sponsored by Assembly Four, empowering sex workers through technology: https://assemblyfour.com/
For more info on sex work in Australia, please check out the following organisations:
ACT (SWOP ACT): https://meridianact.org.au/swop/
NSW (SWOP NSW): https://swop.org.au/
NT (SWOP NT): https://www.ntahc.org.au/swopnt
Qld (Respect Inc): https://respectqld.org.au/
SA (SIN): http://www.sin.org.au/sindex.html
Tas (Scarlet Alliance): https://scarletalliance.org.au/links/
Vic (Vixen Collective): https://www.vixencollective.org/vc
WA (Magenta): http://magenta.org.au
Jenna Love 0:02
COVID-19 has had a significant impact on the sex industry, and snap lockdowns and travel restrictions mean that there are times when sex workers require emergency financial relief in order for them and their dependents to stay safe, housed and fed.
Holly Harte 0:16
Sex workers don't get sick or holiday pay and many have no savings to fall back on. The stigma and discrimination that we face means that some have no proof of earnings to access government support. And of course, migrant workers are often forgotten
Jenna Love 0:28
Scarlet Alliance and their state and territory member organisations joined together to create an ongoing fund that is hosted on the website chuffed that's c h u f f e d.
Holly Harte 0:39
Donations are tax deductible, 100% of funds raised go directly to sex workers in need. And most weeks the amount of people applying outweigh the amount of funds raised and sadly people have to be turned away. The link to this fund is in our show notes.
Jenna Love 0:56
Welcome to Somebody You Love, or the sale of two titties. I'm Jenna Love.
Holly Harte 1:03
And I'm Holly Harte.
Jenna Love 1:05
And we're experts in disappointing our parents breaching community guidelines and banging the people who vote against our rights.
Jenna Love 1:14
Hey, everyone, welcome back to the show. I'd like to take a moment to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land on which we are recording today, I'm lucky to be surrounded by the beautiful bush and mountains of the Darug and Gundungurra people.
Holly Harte 1:28
And I'm on the land of the Ngunnawal people surrounded by the beautiful Brindabellas.
Jenna Love 1:33
We extend our respect to any elders past and present, and we acknowledge that sovereignty was never ceded. It's also really important to keep in mind that the lived experiences of sex workers are incredibly varied. And the things that we say on this podcast are only reflections of our own personal experiences. Now, we've marked this podcast everywhere as being explicit. But in case you missed that somehow, it's going to be explicit, obviously.
Holly Harte 2:05
Today, we're excited to be joined by Danika Deep. Danika is an award winning transgender escort based in Canberra, Australia. She has a lot of experience in the adult industry, including fetish work and porn. She offers everything from social bookings to GFE and PSE to full domination in a dungeon.
Jenna Love 2:23
Hi, Danica. How are you?
Danika Deep 2:25
Yeah, I'm great. Great. Absolutely fabulous.
Holly Harte 2:28
Thanks for joining us.
Danika Deep 2:29
Thanks for having me.
Jenna Love 2:30
Thank you so much. You're our guinea pig, because you're the first guest we've ever had.
Danika Deep 2:34
*Gasp* No one mentioned this. Okay, that's really cool. I just thought this was run of the mill for you guys
Jenna Love 2:40
Oh did noone say that?
Danika Deep 2:41
No, noone said anything. That's
Holly Harte 2:43
Holly's thrown you under the bus.
Jenna Love 2:45
So we're, we're a little bit nervous, actually, to be welcoming you into this world of madness that the two of us have created
Danika Deep 2:53
Well, that's alright. I'm a little nervous to be here, but I'm sure we'll get past this.
Jenna Love 2:57
Yeah, I think we're all quite good at getting past initial nerves and just getting into it aren't we?
Danika Deep 3:02
Oh yeah I think, you know, a few years in the game, you gotta get over those nerves, just roll with it.
Jenna Love 3:09
So what, what sort of drew you to the industry? And like, how, what's your origin story?
Danika Deep 3:16
Um, honestly, like, it was something that I wanted to do from a very young age, I grew up with the internet in dial-up ages, in the dial-up age, right, but, you know, before everyone had the internet, my dad was an IT dude. So I had the net. And I was very I dunno, sexually explorative, I suppose. But yeah, so I was into, sort of got into the porn and all that sort of stuff quite young. And all sorts of, various sort of fetish forums and websites, which wasn't hard to kind of fake your age to get into. But I remember I was around i dunno, 13, or 14 reasonably sexually active at that stage. But, you know, seeing all this porn, and these people sort of performing. And it was obviously work, like this was a job. And I just thought, like, you know, as opposed to being a tradie, or a doctor, or a firey or whatever. It was just like, people are actually doing this, which looks really fun, as a career. I want to be a dominatrix, or a porn star. So I literally kind of told myself that, when I was, I'd say about 13 or 14. But of course, that's the kind of thing that you can take to your careers advisor at school.
Jenna Love 4:27
Danika Deep 4:28
So I kept I kept the lid on that for a while. But yeah, so it was, it was early days. And I kind of said that I did my theory up until the age of 18. I was living in a rural community, and I didn't really have any outlet, which I don't really think I would have had much of a chance to act upon my urges in real time at that age anyway. But yeah, so I had a whole lot of time to sort of engage online in forums, just viewing different sort of pornography and being inspired in that way, during a very, you know, hormonal period, I suppose. And, yeah, it was just something that I thought, why not? This is kind of up my alley.
Jenna Love 5:10
So you'd say it was really brewing for a long time?
Danika Deep 5:13
Yeah, it was. I mean, I think that's the thing. Like, initially, it was, sort of was fantasy, I'd love to do this. But it was not. It was not something that I thought was actually possible. But I did spend a lot of time in forums and chat rooms and, and ended up making connections and stuff, which, you know, I was actually able to, there was, there was a yield further down the line, I suppose.
Holly Harte 5:35
So then, how did you transfer that or translate that into a real world situation? When did that happen? And how did that happen?
Danika Deep 5:42
Well, like I said, I grew up in a rural situation. But then I moved away when I was 18. After finishing school, down to Mount Bulla in Victoria, studying at Latrobe. So a lot of the friends in my class would be based in Melbourne. So, you know, you'd do weekends, sort of travelled down with folks and I'd just disappear. And I was kicking around with the, sort of, dominatrix down there and spent some time in one of the commercial dungeons for like a few weekends. That was kind of my first taste, I suppose. Just being a little French maid, getting all dressed up and being exposed to the scene. And so there's that. And then, you know, I was up at the snow for a couple of years and did a whole lot of damage to the shoulders. And there was another mistress that I was speaking to in Sydney, we built up quite a solid connection over this year or two. And I had to go up for a shoulder surgery, like a shoulder reconstruction. And we've been trying to meet for a while, but I didn't really have the means or like, you know, you can't just, sort of 18, you can't just say 'Mum going to Sydney, be back at the end of the week.' And she's like, 'Why, who are you seeing?' I'm like, uhh, you know, it's kind of a bit outside of my capacity. But anyway, so I had to go up, see the surgeon, have a shoulder surgery. And so I was visit, like I stayed with a friend the night before. And she was staying in Surry Hills, she lived in Surry Hills. She was studying up there. And I got in touch with this mistress. And like she knew that I was coming up. And I called her once I was at my friend's. And she happened to be like two blocks away. Like that's where she was situated. And so I shot over there that night and actually got involved in one of her sessions that evening. As her alpha sub. Yeah, like, it just blew my mind. I loved it. It was
Jenna Love 7:24
Can I ask what an alpha sub is?
Holly Harte 7:27
Danika Deep 7:28
See that's the thing, I'm really out of touch with the BDSM world these days. Basically, like, you know, if you've got sort of, I dunno, there's a hierarchy of submissives, I suppose. And the alpha sub is at the top. So in this particular situation, I was like the little school girl, and I was her submissive and slave, the client, was lower than me, so to speak. So he was being directed to pleasure me, please me. Whereas I was, you know, bound and whatever else, but I had a slightly higher position in the overall hierarchy. Here's the mistress up here. Way up the top, we both adore her. Here I am down low. And he is here, further down than me.
Holly Harte 8:14
I love that
Jenna Love 8:14
Well I've just discovered that I have been an alpha sub a number of times. I think I've also been a beta sub or
Danika Deep 8:21
Jenna Love 8:21
Yeah, I that's, that's fascinating. Thank you. That's really articulated some experiences I've, I've had!
Holly Harte 8:28
Now Danika, while we're talking about the hierarchy and the dynamic between the mistress and subs, and I suppose you as an apprentice in the, you know, the domme world. What do you think was your experience of that hierarchy and say, the training processes in the domme scene?
Danika Deep 8:46
Well that's the thing, I kind of sidestepped it, I suppose, this particular mistress, she was quite prominent prayer, and nighties in such but she was a private operator. She had connections all through the scene, but we'd built up a relationship outside, like, you know, online for a while. I mean, because there was also that she was a trans dominatrix, and came from a similar kind of background and such and part of our connection was, you know, this empathy of her for me, in regards to my sort of trans journey, I suppose, if you want to put it like that, but anyway, so when we hooked up there was that and I didn't really like I wasn't exposed to, I guess, the standard way in which... like, I've heard about how like, you know, to become a mistress, one goes to the dungeon, does the time, all that sort of stuff, whereas we already had a bit of relationship. And I became her slave, like a live-in slave. When I came back, like I had the surgery, I went back to my hometown for six weeks while I was in a sling and recovering and then came up, saw the surgeon had the sling ripped off. I couldn't work for a few months, and so I ended up staying with her. And just, you know, we became good friends, but I also became like live-in slave I suppose and it was kind of a social thing that turned into a professional thing along the way.
Holly Harte 9:54
So you sort of got the shortcut?
Danika Deep 10:09
Yeah, I did, I really was very fortunate because I didn't really go through the formal side of things, I suppose. Like we did to a degree, like she trained me in ways, but there was no competing with others, like I mean, she'd already, or we'd already forged a relationship prior to that, she knew my goals, and she knew I was genuine about it. And then she was quite in touch with sort of my, I guess, theoretical experience. And so yeah, moving on from that, it was just like, it wasn't like, a shift a week or anything, I was living in there with her. So it was like, being the live-in slave plus the live-in apprentice, so to speak. But as I said, I kind of sidestepped the actual, I know what you'd find at a commercial dungeon, I suppose.
Jenna Love 10:55
Well I imagine you'd learn quite quickly, when you're living, when you know, when it's 24/7?
Danika Deep 11:00
Yeah, well, I mean, that's the thing because like, you know, we were, like I was at her house the whole time she do a session, I may or may not be involved. She'd bring me in if the client was cool with it, possibly to observe, maybe to hand her things or possibly as a bit of eye candy, who knows. But um, or, I'd be sitting out, you know, in the living room, and then I get the feedback. And then sort of, we discuss it afterwards. And she'd go through everything, and then, you know, I'd clean up, obviously. But, um, yeah, so I never, but as far as hierarchy goes, like, it was just her and I, and, yeah, so I kind of I wasn't really exposed to that. Like, I mean, I heard about it, I knew about it. And I just didn't experience it myself.
Jenna Love 11:38
That's such a fascinating journey, though. And along with doing it, I mean, you do a wide range of things and have done a wide range of things in the sex industry. And I know that you've got a strong collection of online content. I'm somebody who does, you know, online, as well as in-person work, too. Do you, do you have a preference? Do you? Do you love the in person stuff? Do you want to? Do you prefer doing online? Tell me your thoughts?
Danika Deep 12:05
Yeah, I mean, that's the thing, porn, like I said a bit earlier, when I was young, I wanted to be a porn star or dominatrix and that was kind of how, you know, I sort of created a trajectory to, you know, head into the industry. But porn, which I'm sure you guys are aware, was kind of a grey area in Australia. And it definitely was back then. I mean, it's changing now with sites like manyvids and onlyfans and all that sort of stuff. But trans porn, I found, was really mundane, really run of the mill for years. It's changed a lot in the last sort of 5, I dunno yeah, about 5 or 6 years, I suppose. I don't watch much porn these days, which is a bit ironic. But when I was younger, like I was basically a porn addict from like, 11 or 12, through to 28. At that point, light went off kind of thing, like the light switch went off. But um, yeah, so I was really into making like, I got into making porn, but it was all, I didn't monetize it or system like, so it's like xtube and xhamster. But it was purely to make the porn that I wanted to see, because it wasn't out there. Not in trans porn. I said, like, I never really watched trans porn and just because of the fact that I found it kind of boring. It was just, you know, the same scenario over and over and over and over again, that didn't really involve much fetish or like if it was it was just again, just really sort of run of the mill settings.
Jenna Love 13:21
Can I can I ask what that scenario was?
Danika Deep 13:24
What the standard?
Jenna Love 13:25
Danika Deep 13:26
It was, either like, you know, one guy getting gangbanged by like, five mistress dommes, or like, you know, the opposite. But there was none of the actual finer kinks. You know what I mean? Like, you have a look these days, it's people like you know, Natalie Mars, and she's doing all these really extreme stuff, you know, huge anal, sort of gaping, fisting and all that sort of stuff, which you didn't really see a lot of it back then, it was really hard to find. It was just this, you know, trans girl, guy, sucks dick. Wow. Okay, cool. Yeah, that's hot. But when it's done a million times, it's kind of boring. Like to answer your question, I prefer the in-person. When I was younger, I was way more of an exhibitionist and I was creating this porn to sort of fill a gap that I felt was there. But these days, I dunno, like, I think after getting hormone therapy and such, (my) sex drive's, taken a dive, and I really now get off on the connection and the growth that I see within my clients and sort of helping people sort of navigate their sexuality. So that's kind of what does it for me now, the exhibitionist side of me is, I don't know, it kind of died along with my 20s I mean, there's a little bit of it there, but it's not as strong as it used to be. So
Jenna Love 13:31
Oh I can relate to so much of this.
Danika Deep 13:52
Okay cool, I'm not alone, that's awesome.
Holly Harte 14:40
So would you say that that has been a highlight in your sex work career and and what else has been a highlight for you during this career?
Danika Deep 14:50
Like, there's so much I mean, I guess what's, oh god, hard question to answer, like to specify one thing, I suppose like, you know, I've been to some amazing places with some amazing people doing just fucked up shit. That's cool. But at the same time, so is like, okay, I'll give you two sort of extremes, just to kick hooking around. Yeah, I guess that kind of works in this scenario, but like getting around with a particular individual. Yeah, this actually, this was a bit of a highlight. So I had a client, when I was up in Sydney, and I guess, I was kind of his entertainment, quote unquote, coordinator when he was in town. And this is, you know, a big, sort of, name kind of person. And, yeah, like, basically, we'd be at these awesome hotels throughout Sydney, he'd come up for a night or whatever, do his work. And I basically had his credit card, I'd rock up at the hotel first, his driver would come and pick me up, I'd go to the hotel, and then, I just go through... he was a voyeur, essentially. And so he loved me because I was really diverse, and he couldn't put me in a box, blah, blah, blah, like, it was always different. And yeah, so I'd have his card, I'd just be trawling through, you know, escort pages, dominatrix catalogues or you know, whatever. But I just, I was like a kid in a candy shop, I could get whoever I wanted around, to do whatever I wanted. You know what I mean? Like, oh, maybe I want to get topped, by like, some, like a couple of male escorts. Or, I'll get like another domme, and we'll-
Holly Harte 16:20
That sounds amazing!
Jenna Love 16:21
That is amazing. That is the goal. That's the dream booking.
Danika Deep 16:25
Yeah, it was it was mad, it went on for quite a while. But I mean, that was the thing, it was like doing that, and really sort of crazy venues. And I remember being on top of Hyde Park, just like having these watersports sessions, just like on one of those top tiers of whatever the hotel was. And just like, yeah just like, ridiculous shit, right? It's awesome. But there's that. And that's really cool. And it's just like, you know, it's sort of superstar experience, or whatever. And that's amazing. But at the other end of the spectrum, and this is, I think more relative to sort of what I do now is like, you know, I've got a particular disabled client here. And I'm like, a very sensory person, I always have been, I really love the fact that in this world, so it gives us so many different ways in which you can feel and experience it, so from temperatures, to textures, to all this sort of stuff, really love the sensory world, I suppose. I've got this client and he's like, suffers severe cerebral palsy, and he's really incapacitated, the first time I went to seeing him, like, we had a bit of a plan or whatever, and I just realised how unable he was to experience the world around him. And sort of, we went through, like, I guess, the script of the session, but then I was able to sort of take him on this bit more of a journey, just to like, you know, just the simple way in which one can like, you know, you just run the fingernails down the inside of your opposite arm, it feels great, do it, you know, just from your wrist up to your elbow on the inside, it feels amazing, someone else does that, feels even better. It's just such a simple thing, he's unable to do that. It's such a simple, simple sensation that you can give to yourself at any given time. And he's cut off from that, no fault of his own. No, it was, like seeing this guy. And it just just kind of blew my mind that here I am, so lucky to be able to walk outside, get the sun on your face, or jump into a cold pool or stick your head out the window and feel the air in your face. He's just completely incapable of any of that. And so here, I had this opportunity to sort of take him on this sensory journey. So we got experimental and exploratory, taking him in the shower and just spraying water over certain parts of his body in certain ways. And then, you know, we tend to have sort of about a three hour session. And he's buggered after it, but he's just so content. And I'll hear about it for like days afterwards, he'll be, emailing me. And so that's like, you know, the impact you can have on someone's life like that. Like I said, you've got the crazy hotel stuff, and all these sort of dreams coming true, whatever. But then having such a huge impact on someone's life, like bringing so much to a life, which- because, he's got human contact, he's got his carers and such, but everything's just so... structured.
Jenna Love 19:00
Danika Deep 19:01
Yeah, exactly. And so to be able to come around, and really just indulge him in every way. Like, in all these sort of sensory ways that he's just completely cut off, and he has no way in which he's able to do it otherwise, is, it's quite profound. I found.
Holly Harte 19:17
That makes me quite emotional.
Danika Deep 19:19
Yeah. And that's it. Right. And so when you say, you know, big pivotal moment or whatever, that's one of those things where you just feel really, like, it that moves you. And I think,
Jenna Love 19:29
Yeah, I think those are the bookings that I think we've all had experiences like that. And we go fuck this is, this is what it's about, man. This is what we're here for.
Danika Deep 19:38
Yeah, exactly. I mean, that's the thing there's so many taboos and stigmas and sort of cliches of what the industry is, and often it is some of those things, but then there's this other side, which is so much deeper, and so much more meaningful.
Holly Harte 19:50
So you also work in Sydney regularly. What are some of the differences that you find between working in Sydney and Canberra? Do you find there's a difference between the clientele or not?
Danika Deep 20:00
Very much so. Like, I mean, there, there are crossovers, but I find Canberra, a lot of what I do in Canberra is, as I mentioned, helping people kind of navigate their sexuality. So things are a lot more low key, I guess. Whereas in Sydney, I get a lot more say, PSEs, porn star experiences. Seems a lot more lusty, fetishised, or whatever. But down here, like, you know, it's generally girlfriend experiences, and it's generally like a bit of sort of counselling or, you know, discussion about, like, you know, 'does this mean I'm gay' or blah, blah, blah, all that sort of stuff. Whereas in Sydney, it's just like, 'yeah, let's get fucking hot'. I mean, as I said earlier, like, you know, the texture, I've sort of taken a dive, and I love the meaningful side of this these days, but at the same time, to go up there and get a dose of just like, 'yes, yes, yes, this is hot!'. This is like, getting all done up, getting all the toys out, all that sort of stuff. It's really, yeah, that's fun. But I mean, if I was doing that every day, or every week, I think I just couldn't hack it these days. So down in Canberra, there's something a bit more intimate, meaningful, it's about sort of growth and sort of exploring someone's boundaries or their sexuality or, you know, trying to understand where they're at, who they are.
Jenna Love 21:12
I've really found the same, which is why I bloody love touring Canberra.
Danika Deep 21:16
Yeah, it's good isn't it? I mean, it's interesting, the amount-, it's happened numerous times, and actually saw one of these clients the other day, where like, the partner got in touch with me to book me for their partner, because, you know, they're sort of exploring, whatever. And I think it's time for them to do this and whatever. And yeah, so I mean, it was a second time seeing, old matey and, you know, moving it to the next stage. And it was funny. So you know, that call that everyone dreads, the whole, the partner calling up going, 'You've seen my husband' or blah blah blah, but yeah, so I got that. And I'm like, you know, blood drained from the face, kind of just like, wow, and she's like, 'Yeah, it's his birthday coming up, and I'd like to book', and I'm like, oh my god, oh okay, I knew exactly who it was, straight off the bat. But this is just after I broke my wrist a couple of months ago. So had to hold off. But anyway, so that's who I caught up with last week, and had a really nice time.
Holly Harte 22:11
Jenna Love 22:11
That is brilliant. I'm definitely seeing an increase in partners getting involved in the booking process in some way. Which is fucking brilliant.
Danika Deep 22:19
Yeah, it's really good to see isn't it, like, transparency, in a relationship and acceptance of, you know, a more diverse sort of sexuality as a couple, like accepting of the fact that, you know, I'm not their everything, you know, emotionally and companionship-wise. Yeah, possibly, but we're sexual beings, and we need diversity, at least to explore it, or try it or whatever. So, it's kind of cool that people are allowing themselves and each other to explore.
Holly Harte 22:52
I just wanted to say, I'm really fascinated, I suppose from a gender perspective, I think that's really fascinating that, you know, couples exploring their sexuality, you know, by bringing, you know, a cisgender woman into the bedroom is is, you know, sort of the old story, you know, you sort of see it a lot on Tinder, when when I've been on there, you know, couples looking for some random chick
Danika Deep 23:12
The unicorn or whatever.
Jenna Love 23:13
Yeah, unicorn hunters.
Holly Harte 23:14
Yeah, but looking from a diverse genders perspective is really fascinating that the, their partner feels that they can discuss that. Because I know that traditionally a lot of, you know, you know, 'hetero men', or, you know, I'm doing that in quotations, because it's not always that distinctly clear. But, you know, they're quite awkward to talk about that sort of thing. So, that's really cool, that that's something that you can then facilitate and help these people explore such a diverse thing.
Danika Deep 23:42
Well, I think, and this is something that being a trans worker, you come across a lot, like, you know, people saying, you know, I'm interested in, sort of dicks, but not men, you know what I mean, you guys probably don't get that much,
Holly Harte 23:56
Jenna Love 23:57
I mean, I have clients tell me that exact thing all the time, I have plenty of those conversations. And I'm also interested in dick and not men, sometimes so like, I relate.
Danika Deep 24:08
Well there you go, so to have this, you know, this, this experience with a penis without the sort of the stubble, and the hair and that sort of scent, that comes with the man and the muscles and all that sort of stuff. It's, you know, to wrap that experience up in a more feminine, sort of image or experience is, you know, it's a bridge for a lot of people, I think. And it might just be a bridge to halfway along the bridge, and they never go any further and for some people that might be a way in which to, like, you know, just just try something new. And then that goes into it just sort of, lets them slowly break down the boundaries that they put upon upon themselves to, like, you know, maybe hooking up with a guy further down the track, or whatever, but it's just like, or it just means, you know, they love dicks, and they love tits too, or you know, they just love the scent or the attire or the soft hair or you know, the hairless body.
Holly Harte 24:57
Yeah, it can mean as much or as little as it has to.
Danika Deep 25:01
Yeah. But it's just it's I think it's just way less confronting, than hooking up with a big sort of strong, man. It's kind of like looking in the mirror. Touching yourself, I suppose. Yeah. Yeah. But so and I think that's the thing people in, like, often when it's the couples, it's about the guy having a bi experience, because I guess, you know, what you just mentioned earlier, Holly, like the, or was it Jenna? Whoever said it, about the you know, the standard was, you know, the, the extra girl in the bedroom. And now we seem to be becoming a bit more progressive as a society, the idea of having an extra penis in the bedroom, is, you know, becoming a bit more accepted or a bit more exciting when people can actually sort of venture down that road a little bit more.
Jenna Love 25:49
Holly Harte 25:49
Bloody good, yes
Danika Deep 25:50
Yeah, yeah, this is this way in which people can do it in a less confronting way than getting another guy in, cuz that, you know, a lot of dudes are pretty insecure,
Holly Harte 26:01
Danika Deep 26:02
Jenna Love 26:03
Yeah. So how do you feel, like what has your experience been within the industry from the perspective of being a trans woman? Like, do you do you think that there are areas in which the community and or clients can improve? Or is that too difficult a question?
Danika Deep 26:18
It's hard to tell, like, my experience has overall, overall, been pretty good. But I put a lot of this down to my origins were as a dominatrix, yeah. So there was always this hardline 'You approach with respect', right? So that's what I grew up on. That's what I was used to. And so when I sort of ventured into the world of sort of more vanilla escorting if people started acting like tools, or being rude, or sort of gross, I just shut them down and fucked them off. Right. But um, so I think I'm pretty lucky in that, yeah, I've got very sort of hardline boundaries, and I'm quite capable of keeping them. So I haven't really had to deal with too much stuff. Like, I've come across it here and there. But like I said, just boom, gone, they're you know, they're no more after that.
Holly Harte 27:02
How long do you plan to do this work and stay in this industry? And do you have any future dreams that you'd like to share with us?
Danika Deep 27:11
Actually, funny you say that, yeah, one of the reasons that I moved to Canberra was to try and figure out what to do next in life. And yeah, I think I found it. Well, no, I've definitely found it. I know,
Jenna Love 27:20
Danika Deep 27:21
I've got something that I'm gunning for. But I'm currently going through the process at the moment, fingers crossed. But I don't really want to jinx myself. So I won't say too much about it. But yeah, like, I mean, that's thing, I do love this work. And it's been crucial in my sort of personal development. And I feel that, you know, I'm now at a point and thankful of all the work and experiences I've had that sort of brought me to here and made me the person I am, but I can use that and go further out into the community, so to speak. So it's basically like, you know, what I, I don't wanna say too much about it. But it's a community orientated, career, I suppose, with a whole lot of room to grow, and, whatever else, but throughout my 20s, and being in the fetish industry, and like, you know, that sort of stuff was all about finding my limits, exploring myself and coming to terms with who I actually was. And I was very fortunate with you know, having that setting to be able to do that, because it was like, completely unconstrained, unrestrained. And so I've come up with the best version of myself, I suppose. So now I've sort of reached this point where I'm completely sort of, like content with where I am. And I feel that I can go further with that. And sort of be a bit more involved in my local community.
Jenna Love 28:36
I think that's really fascinating, because for so many of us, I think that sex work does become intertwined with our, with who we are. And I've heard some people sort of say, you know, like- I feel that I identify as a sex worker. To an extent, you know, yeah, and I think some people go, 'Oh, it's just your job, you shouldn't be defined by your job'. And, and I understand what they're saying, like, I am a person aside from Jenna, but I think you just ah, you've really kind of blown my mind there. You've made me think about how much of my personal identity has has come from my work.
Danika Deep 29:14
Well, on that, like, I had a two year hiatus, just before moving to Canberra. This is when I shut down my dungeon. And I was just working like, a regular job in property styling. And that was huge. Like, I felt like I'd lost such a massive part of myself. Like from being this kinky dominatrix. Like, you know, you'd be at a dinner party or something, just like, 'Oh, what do you do for work?' And I'm like, 'Well.' And then all of a sudden, the whole table just be focused on you. And it's like, 'Oh, tell us more. Tell us more. Tell us more' to turn into just like, 'I just I just got the normal job' and I go through the motions and whatever.
Jenna Love 29:46
It sounds like you're in a really, really exciting place. I'm really excited for you.
Danika Deep 29:50
Jenna Love 29:51
I can tell! I wish our listeners could see you on video because Danika is so expressive with her storytelling and yeah, she's very engaging.
Danika Deep 30:02
Oh wow, thanks Jenna!
Holly Harte 30:03
She's compelling, isn't she? Compelling, I like that word. You used that the other day, and I love that.
Holly Harte 30:12
EnVilopes are laminated reusable envelopes that you can give to your provider with their fee inside. Because they are open topped, the provider can easily and discreetly check that the fee is correct, allowing you both to move on to more fun activities.
Jenna Love 30:25
You could even use them to put letters or little messages inside. You know when you buy someone tickets to a concert and you feel like just a knob giving them a piece of paper, I think this would be way cuter. And then they've got a way of keeping it safe until the date.
Holly Harte 30:37
They are $16 for a set of six. And there's a link in the show notes.
Jenna Love 30:47
So for our question of the week, we're actually going to turn it into a questions of the week, we asked our patrons to submit questions that they might have for Danika. And because Danika is only here for us for this one episode, we thought we'd throw a bunch of them at her.
Danika Deep 31:04
Woo, lucky me!
Holly Harte 31:06
The first question is, how do you relate to and handle bookings with hetero men who want to book a GFE with a trans woman?
Danika Deep 31:13
Um, I'd say that's a huge part of my clientele, I suppose. I guess, that's the thing, in a way, you know. I grew up in a very rural setting, probably half my life was spent as a guy, like I've got a lot of connection with dudes. A huge part of my sort of inner circle of friends that I you know, grew up with and, you know, are still close are cis het guys, like I understand them quite well. I guess, you know, I can connect quite well with yeah, your sort of, you know, quote unquote, straight dude. This is what I love about the work that I do now. As I mentioned earlier, like in Canberra, this is a lot of like, you know, navigating people's sexuality. And so they come in, and they say that, like, you know, 'Does this make me bi or like, you know, gay?' or whatever it's just like, 'Dude this just means that you enjoy doing what we're doing at this given point in time, like, live in the now' whatever. And there's folks that have come, they've kind of like, you know, they've really put on a pedestal and come and they've had a ball, and then you know, they'll be coming next week and the week after, and then they might sort of ease off after a while to sort of save their bank account. Or, they'll start seeing other girls and they'll just, you know, whatever. But there's folks that are just like, 'Oh, that's cool. I don't know if I will do it again'. There's others who are like, 'oh that's not really me'. And it's just like, it's just one of those things like, you know, we live in this big, wide, wonderful world. Essentially, ultimately, I don't think there's any rules, it's just those that you put upon yourself, or that we put on each other as a society. And if you like, start putting yourself in that box, well, it's just limiting the experience that you can have. And I mean, that's the thing. We as humans, we've got various, you know, sensations, we've got various organs, we've got, you know, whatever. But if you just want to limit yourself to say, short, skinny girls with blonde hair, great, that's cool, you might be able to get all the pleasure you need in the world. But if you will open up your world to everything from you know, guys, girls, trans, whatever, curly hair, short hair, like, you know, that's the thing, there's just all these different versions, sensations, touches, sense, rhythms, personalities that you can enjoy. And like, you know, chemistry is such a huge thing. So, you know, you may get along with one person one particular way, in a certain kind of dynamic or whatever, but you might meet someone else and they're completely different. And they may put you in your place, you put them in your place, it's just like, there's so many ways in which to enjoy yourself and enjoy someone else. And if you've got to put a cap on that, fair enough. But, if you leave the door open, you know, the world is your oyster. And so that's the thing. So a lot of like dealing with, quote unquote, sort of straight guys looking for the GFE, It's just like, letting them realise that this particular experience doesn't define who they are, it's just something that they're doing, you enjoy it or you don't, and it's like, if you enjoy it, great, maybe seek out more, maybe don't, maybe just keep it as that little fantasy that you can have a wank off at night. Or, you know, fucking follow it and just get more involved in what it like, it's just, it's a moment in time, in which, you know, you're experiencing, however you want to do that. That's great. And, you know, whether you sort of feel guilty about it or not, is kind of up to you, like, you know, you put those limits on yourself. So to come back to your question. It's basically like, it's just sort of counselling folks to just realise that, you know, this this is it's just like, it's about pleasure, enjoyment. That's what we're having sex for, right? Ultimately. Some people are doing it to have kids, not me, obviously,
Jenna Love 34:46
No, no-one on the call.
Holly Harte 34:48
None of us, yeah,
Danika Deep 34:50
If you're enjoying it, if it's good, if you're not hurting anyone, like you know, it's like you know, if you're just sort of having a good time with someone,
Holly Harte 34:58
Go for it. Yeah.
Danika Deep 35:00
Enjoy it. I mean, you know, don't feel bad about it!
Jenna Love 35:03
Yes, it's really that simple, isn't it?
Danika Deep 35:04
Like it is, like, on paper it is. But for some people it is so hard. Yeah, you know, because everyone's got their lived experiences and this all sort of, you know, determines how they're going to view it all but yeah, so I mean that's the thing, ultimately it is very simple. It's just helping people to see that.
Holly Harte 35:22
This patron has asked 'Have you been affected by lockdowns? And if so, are you coping? Okay, is there anything that we can do to assist?'
Jenna Love 35:29
Is this a question for me? Because I feel like
Holly Harte 35:31
Jenna Love 35:32
I'm kidding, I'm just currently in Sydney where we've got some, some, bit of a situation
Danika Deep 35:39
Oh yeah, huge.
Holly Harte 35:40
No, Jenna is not going okay, patrons. Jenna needs all of your assistance. Jenna is not coping!
Danika Deep 35:46
Jenna Love 35:47
I just needed to get that out there.
Holly Harte 35:49
Just, cash! Lots of cash.
Danika Deep 35:52
Oh, yeah, that. Yeah, no, living in Canberra we've been incredibly fortunate Holly will know what I'm talking about. Yeah, we just seem to sort of avoid most of the, I think in this whole pandemic, we've only really been locked down for a couple of weeks, or maybe months, like early last year. And even then, private workers didn't get shut down. Like I got caught in Melbourne once when they had a five day snap lockdown, which, that was just after, you know, Melbourne kind of opened up again. And I was staying at mom's for a couple days before that happened. I was down there for work, I was about to check into my Airbnb. But the press conference was about an hour before that happened. And I got stuck there and sort of put the Airbnb like, got a credit for that. And it was a forced family holiday. I just got to hang out with mum, and both sisters were within a 5k radius. And so, I mean, because that's the thing, it's easy with this work, especially like when you're touring, you just get carried away, like, you know, go down to Melbourne, see my Mum and sisters, but then like, work, work work the whole time. This is just like, put the brakes on. Hanging out, can't work.
Holly Harte 37:00
Danika Deep 37:00
Literally can't work. So just yeah, so it was just like, that was actually kind of nice. But outside of that I haven't really been affected too much.
Jenna Love 37:10
Do you get asked to swap between gender roles during bookings? Or between active and passive without having a gender role change? If so, how do you feel about it? And how do you reconcile that with your self image?
Danika Deep 37:24
Um, as far as a general thing, not so much. I mean, ever, not like not- possibly when I was younger, when I was a bit more gender ambiguous, I suppose. But I think that's the thing, like, you know, have a look, my website, I'm certainly not claiming to be hyper feminine, I'm kind of this mix between masculinity and femininity. And so I think that's the thing, like, you know, I'm kind of sitting in the middle of the road already. So I can't swap to the other side, because I'm right there in the middle, I would have to go to one pole or the other, but, you know, I'm a feminine individual with these masculine traits. And, like, you know, remnants of these masculine traits, I suppose. So yeah, no, that's not something I've come across down here. As far as swapping roles, active/passive, yeah, all the time. But I think that's the thing, it's more like, it's not so much a power play sort of thing. I think it's just like, people wanting to experience the most that they can, as I mentioned a bit earlier, like the whole, you know, I've got all these different organs, and, you know, there's different configurations, you can make them interact, I suppose. Like you know, when it's a girl, and a guy, there's two holes on her, a hole and a, you know, stick on him. To put it very crudely. So you're kinda limited. When you're, when you've got, like, you know, the guy and a trans woman and, you know, these, these options have just opened up to this guy that he's never had to experience before, but at the same time, he still wants to put his...stick in the hole. You know what I mean? But he's keen to try it the other way around too. And so, I mean, as far as how I reconcile that with me, I mean, I've been in the game a long time. Like, what I didn't mention about me getting into the industry was that like, I, I was always a submissive initially. Like, naturally, I was a submissive. You know, when I was talking with mistress, when I was a slave was like, 'Yeah, I'd love to be a pro sub'. And she's like, 'Well, there's probably not a huge amount of work for someone like yourself as a pro sub. However, if you're a domme, yeah, you know, they'd be beating down the door'. And
Jenna Love 39:25
Can you elaborate on on that? Why there wouldn't be a huge amount of work for someone like yourself?
Danika Deep 39:29
I mean, that's the thing, I was a 6 foot tall, like kinda, cross dresser, I guess at that stage kind of sub. So I mean, masculine to a degree, right. And so yeah, probably not.
Jenna Love 39:30
Danika Deep 39:43
However, a six foot tall trans domme with a functional deck. Yeah. They all want it. Kind of thing. But I mean that's the thing, so I kind of trained myself to be dominant and to be the top, like for a sort of, you know, professional, kind of commercial capacity and you know, after being in the game for years doing that, grew to enjoy it and love it. And so now like, you know, I'm quite, I'm quite versatile. And so, you know, being passive, or you know, the top or whatever, active is just like, it makes no difference to me. I'm cool. Either way, it's all good. But yeah, so I mean that's the thing, generally I prefer to top first. I mean, being on hormone therapy and such, it's, it's constantly, it's pushing water uphill, trying to maintain an erection and a strong erection for a while. So if I can get in first. All the best to us. But yeah, and then after that, yeah, like, you know, go crazy. But I mean, like, you know, like I said, I enjoy both roles these days. And so if someone wants to enjoy both, great, if they just want to be the top awesome. If they just want me to top them, great. I mean, it yeah, that makes, it makes no difference to me really. As far as my identity, goes, I mean, I'm, I'm fine with all that. Like I said, I've been in the industry for coming up on 15 years, I guess. So it's, in a way, it's like growing up in the hometown, all these people went off and got their trades, this was mine. So you know, to a degree, it's just like it's work, it's work that I rather enjoy. But at the same time, it's like, you know, it's like swinging a hammer for someone. It's just, it's what I do. Happy to do it. And hey, if this is how you want me to, quote unquote, build your house or service, your
Jenna Love 41:22
Swing your hammer
Danika Deep 41:22
Fix, fix your plumbing, I'll do it. I've got the skills and yeah,
Holly Harte 41:28
Got the skills and the tools
Danika Deep 41:29
I've got the experience, I can do that for you. Yeah.
Jenna Love 41:31
It's probably a really good, that's probably a good time for me to ask if you have preferred pronouns, because I totally made assumptions.
Danika Deep 41:38
I mean, this is no, no, not really. I mean, I've got a pretty unique view on this, I think, and I think this stems from I've got really supportive friends, like, you know, grew up in these rural community. And I'm just going to say, I come from Wagga. And I've got a huge support from there, and all my friends are really, really great. And one of the things that sort of held me back in starting hormone therapy for so long was, was my thought that maybe me transitioning may take away the personality or the, not the personality, but like the person that people knew me as. And I felt like I didn't want to do that to my friends and such, right. And I was talking to someone about this. And it's just like, the, like, you know, you whether you take this shape, or that shape or dress up like this, it doesn't matter. You're the individual like, you know, we love you, the person, D, right? And so that kind of feeds into our pronouns, like I guess, preferred would be she/her. I say, and listen this may be controversial to some or something, I suppose. But it's like, I don't know, like call it how you see it. And I think that's kind of like, I'm quite confident. in who I am. Basically, when it comes down, I don't give a fuck what anyone else thinks about who I am, right? The most important person to satisfy here for me, is me. And I'm confident in who I am. Right? And so if someone wants to call me he or whatever it's like, "yeah, cool, whatever". I'd prefer if it was a "she". But ultimately, it doesn't matter. Because I know who I am. I know who I am, been or whatever, I feel completely comfortable in my skin. And however old mate over there perceives me? Fair enough. That's him, like perception is reality, right? For the individual. And for me, I perceive myself as this and if they perceive me as that? Fair enough, why not? Whatever, but it's just no skin off my back. So I think I'm just very comfortable with the person that I am. And I guess as I said, my preferred thing--
Holly Harte 43:35
I love it.
Danika Deep 43:35
Yeah, I just, and, like, it's very important to some people and I get that it's just for me, it's not so much I just, I just feel that, um, if you put too much weight in other people's perception of you, you kind of put yourself as a disadvantage. Okay, so just be completely confident in yourself, right? Yeah, that's how I am probably Oh,
Jenna Love 43:57
That's great, that's an awesome answer. I mean, that--because I was using she/her which I forget that--because that's what I'd sort of seen on your advertising.
Danika Deep 44:05
Jenna Love 44:06
And I went well, wait a minute. That may not be so I was like "fuck I should've actually--" oh and probably because Holly had used those as well
Holly Harte 44:12
Jenna Love 44:12
Danika Deep 44:12
Well there's another element to my saying call it how you see it, sort of thing, and that's like, I kinda use that as a litmus test because you know, it's a transition like you know, this is it's an ongoing thing like I again, I say I've had it long social transition like--so because I started working in industry as soon as I was like 19 as a like a trans dominatrix - I was dressing up and all that sort of stuff. But I was also able to exist in the capacity of a male like, you know, if my friends are going out BMX riding out to the beach, I just wear board shorts, but if I was in the dungeon, or going out at night, or being, you know, in a frock and all the rest of it, but so I had this long period in which to sort of transition socially, I suppose. But then I started hormone therapy and such. It's a bit different and you kind of like, you know, you want to like you know, there's all these changes that are happening like the hair starts to soften, there's a bit more body fat, and all this sort of stuff. And like the whole call it how you see it thing, I guess, like I said, is a litmus test in that, like, you know, I've noticed that like more people are just naturally addressing me as her and she, some people will say he and him, but you know people see things differently. That's one thing I've found in life. Of like, five people that look at the exact same thing and have completely different perspectives on it and say it differently. And so you've got to factor that in. But at the same time, it's just like, when everyone--well, when more people are addressing me as she and her, I just feel like, well, the hormones are working, or maybe my style is getting better or whatever. And so this is kind of gratifying. And like, you know, a couple of years ago, it was, it was less of that. And so it's, you know, back then it was probably a little harder to cope with, maybe, but I was aware of this fact. And that, like, you know, this is a gradual change. And so when more people are saying she and her, then it just kind of means it's all working, it's going in the right direction, it's coming along. So that call it how you see it has a bit more than just, whatever, I don't care but it's just like it actually it's--becomes more and more gratifying as time goes by. Because it means that, you know, the hormones are working my--whatever--I've had breast surgery that helps and--
Holly Harte 46:19
Love the boobies!
Danika Deep 46:20
--the way in which I interact with people. Aw thanks! I actually need to get a little bit more exposure for them.
Holly Harte 46:25
Yeah you gotta get em out there
Danika Deep 46:27
Yeah, I need to get a photo shoot happening. Actually, I was meant to do one earlier. Well, I was gonna I was planning a big tour.
Holly Harte 46:33
Yeah. It's hard with the lockdowns.
Danika Deep 46:35
And then. Yeah, and then did the wrist and all that sort of stuff. So yeah,
Holly Harte 46:39
That's right, the wrist too
Jenna Love 46:40
Can I ask when you when you did start hormone therapy? How long ago?
Danika Deep 46:44
Yeah. That was the end of 2018. I was actually, yeah, I was about to start, like I was set to go the beginning of 2016. But this is like--I'd just come out of relationship. And this is when I shut down the dungeon actually. And I was just like, there was a lot on the plate, a whole lot of emotional baggage. And so it's probably the wrong time to do it. So took my hiatus, came back a couple years later. Got on it then. And, yeah, it was amazing. Like, it just felt-- I describe it like, you know, I was it kind of a boat without a rudder or something up until that point, because like I said, I was sort of, you know, I had that long social transition, which could be he or her whatever suited the particular point in time when I was doing whether riding the bike or at the beach, or, you know, going out and hanging out with people, but just felt like I was sitting on the fence. Like as far as progressing in life, I needed to like, actually get my shit together and forge a path and yeah, get on the hormone therapy. It was just like, boom, there it was, it happened. I mean, I was able to, you know, pick the path that I always knew was mine and move along. It's been absolutely great. And that's, that's kind of what I alluded to earlier, when talking about, you know, aspirations outside of the industry. It's like having all these growth periods and these opportunities to sort of explore myself within the industry. I mean, having the freed-- the industry has given me the freedom to do so now I'm at this point, which, yeah, I'm completely content we found who I am. And I feel that I can move that into another industry and put more into the, to the local community, I suppose. Yeah.
Jenna Love 48:17
I just I don't know do--excuse my ignorance, the hormones, do you need to now take those for the rest of your life? Like is the transition..?
Danika Deep 48:26
Yeah, pretty much as far as I know. I'm pretty blase about it. I mean, I'm just, um, I just outsource all the, all the important stuff to my doctor, I guess but um yeah. So personally, I take hormone blockers in a tablet form regularly. And then I get an implant, sort of every sort of six to eight months, the sort of oestrogen which yeah, that's ongoing until something--maybe technology changes or something. But as far as I'm aware, that's pretty much how it is for everyone. It's an ongoing battle, I suppose.
Jenna Love 48:59
That's been a really interesting perspective change. In my mind. I think I always thought of the transition as being--
Danika Deep 49:05
like, it's a thing, it happens, then it's over?
Jenna Love 49:07
Yeah, yeah and then it's over.
Danika Deep 49:09
Yeah a lot of people seem to think that but yeah, it's like--
Jenna Love 49:10
You've sort of reframed that, for me.
Danika Deep 49:12
It's something that's consistently ongoing.
Holly Harte 49:16
Our final patron question is, how do you cope with some of the self fetishization that comes with being a trans worker, for example, possibly using terms in advertising that may be considered offensive to the trans--sorry--to trans people outside a sex work context?
Danika Deep 49:32
Yeah, I think that's interesting, very valid question. I mean, I think a lot of these terms, and I'm thinking like, you know, chicks with dicks and shemales, and all that sort of stuff, derived from, you know, the porn industry. I think when I was younger, I probably had a bit more to do with it, like, you know, and those sorts of terms, but I think I was kind of fetishising myself a bit to a degree. And I kind of used that energy for arousal. And so like, you know, and I'd sort of see more clients that were seeing me as a sex object, but at the same time, it was this kind of reverse, in which I was seeing them to get off to sort of play that role. Do you know what I mean? So, yeah, like, you know, I was that sort of shemale, or this or that this, like, you know, whatever, the object, like objectifying myself. And then here's this person that's objectifying me. And then I'd sort of be in his headspace "here I am getting used", or whatever, blah, blah, blah. And so there was that. And that's-- it was all just, I guess, superficial fantasy, really. But these days, that's not something that I had sort of, I'm too involved with, I guess, you read through my website, I think I use the word transgender once and transexual once thereabouts, that I don't really use many terms like that. I'm more talking about the experience that I have, the experiences that we can, like my history, my experiences that I can work with and, I don't know, I'm not one to get too lewd or sexual in my advertising, I kind of aim to try and have like witty writing, that's--that appeals to someone seeking something of more depth, I suppose then just the, you know, wham, bam, thank you, ma'am. I can kind of--like you can kind of tell, I think the clientele that sort of objectify me, and the ones that sort of--they'll come, have the experience and they'll sort of just dash out the door. Then there's others that um, like, you know, we'll end up in a discussion, we'll talk about, we'll talk about sexuality, or not, and it becomes more they're seeing the person, the individual. And so that's, I think, yeah, with my advertising, like, I mean, some of the websites... yeah, they're pretty, you know, behind the eight ball, they're sort of struggling to catch up. And I've seen that in some, especially some of the more lowbrow ones where, yeah, they are using like, are you a ladyboy? Or are you a chick with a dick? And you're like, yeah, gosh, do I have to choose one of those, but--
Jenna Love 52:04
Oh, they're the options?
Danika Deep 52:08
Trying to avoid but I'd like I've seen some stuff like that. And that's, that's like, of course, yeah. Yeah. Well, you see those words getting fired around in some of the websites. They're not not so prevalent these days. But, but I do remember, there was a time when, I guess part, it was still fantasy for me, like before I was on hormones and such like, you know, there was dreams of who I wanted to be, and I'd advertise that, because then that fantasy would get reinforced when I was seeing a client that was seeing me to live that out from the other side of the coin. You know what I mean? So it was kind of yeah, it was, it was affirming, I suppose sort of going. But I mean, that's thing if I carried that on now, I'd probably feel pretty shit about it, because I just feel really objectified. But I've, I guess, my business and my image and whatever has kind of evolved. And that's--it's turned to something else, which is, it's more about me as an individual, as opposed to me as a particular arrangement of body parts.
Jenna Love 53:06
Look, it makes so much sense to me. I feel like I've had a very similar journey, obviously, with a lot less, you know, potential for prejudice involved with the language. But you know, I'm a squirtter. And early on in my career, that was why people came to see me--they came to see the liquid that came out of me.
Danika Deep 53:25
Yeah, you were Jenna the squirter.
Jenna Love 53:26
Danika Deep 53:27
Like you are an attraction or something, that's kind of your thing
Danika Deep 53:30
Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. That's it. And I've noticed--and I still do occasionally get those bookings where somebody comes and they just like, I just want to see this. And I'm totally cool with that. I'm like, that's fine. You're paying me the money. That's what you're here for, great. But more and more yeah, people are coming to see Jenna, because they want to see me and the squirting happens and that's fine
Danika Deep 53:47
Yeah but the human behind it, and the personality and like the individual.
Jenna Love 53:50
Danika Deep 53:50
and I think that's the thing, this is one of those things that sort of gets overlooked in the idea of sex work from, you know, people that are outside of it, that are like, you know, it's still taboo to, it's just like, it's so much more than just that superficial stuff. For some people, that's what it is. And this is what I find, you know, when you get, especially the sort of young people that like, you know, it may be the first time they're trying to book someone, it's like, they've just taken their, I don't know, advice or whatever, from a fucking American gangster film or something. And they try to be like, "Oh, yeah, hey, bitch, how, like, you know, you come suck my dick and I'll give ya $50", and you're like, I'm sorry, what?
Jenna Love 54:32
They abandon all social constructs, and just
Danika Deep 54:36
Absolutely. All the skill just out the window.
Jenna Love 54:39
It's very strange
Danika Deep 54:39
And they just feel that there's this like, you know, there's this massive power play going on, and they're here and we're here. And, you know, it's just really weird because it's so far removed from reality.
Jenna Love 54:50
Yeah, well, little do they know that the power play really goes in the other direction.
Danika Deep 54:54
Jenna Love 54:56
They'll find that out soon enough
Danika Deep 54:57
I mean, it's interesting because sometimes like, I'm just so taken aback just going, what the fuck you talking about? But I'll either grill them or just ignore them. And sometimes, especially when they're younger folks, it's like, I'll grill them. And they'll just go, "Oh, sorry" and then their whole tone will change. And it was completely-- like it was--like it was totally performance. That is not who they are. They just thought that's what it's meant to be. Because they've watched a few films that are based in the States or I don't know where they were influenced, but it's just it's, it's yeah, it's it's so far from what it actually is.
Jenna Love 55:33
So we decided that when we had guests on the show, we probably wouldn't-- our misconceptions section just because we're hoping to break down misconceptions by having the guests on anyway. And we didn't want to sort of overwhelm them. But when we said to Danika we didn't know if we'd do all of the segments. She said, "No, no, I've go--I've got one for 'Shit People Say'", so, um, go for it, share it, share it with us.
Danika Deep 55:57
Well, I guess I've got a particular example of something that a lot of people are a bit more vaguely--haggling is what it comes down to right--haggling a provder's rates. Anyway, so I'm kicking around in the garden, it was Autumn 2019. I know that for a fact, because it was just a bloody good morning, and we're in Canberra and so Autumn's, you know, tits. But anyway, so like, I'm having a ball in the garden and this guy contacts me - he's looking for an appointment, like an hour appointment in the evening, right? Yeah. Sweet. Okay, cool. Girlfriend experience is what he kind of described. That's sweet, that's, this is the rate. He's like "okay, cool. How's about we do it for this". and I'm like ah no, I have just literally just told you my rate. This is what it is this my rate. Like, you know, they're non negotiable. He's like, "Oh, yes. Well, I'm really into what you've been doing. I've you know, checked the profile, all that sort of stuff. I'm really attracted to you. Yeah, okay, let's do it, but we'll do it for," you know, the rate that he suggested. I'm like, then I just texted him, like, you know, my services list. Like, you're after my service list. It's set in stone. These are the rates. Anyway, you know, and it's kind of went on for a couple of hours. And I'm just like, Yeah, whatever. Okay, obviously, don't want to see me or you're not prepared to pay the rates, whatever. So he contacted me later that night. He was looking for booking around 7:00 or 7:30. And he contacted me about 6:30. He's like, so are we doing this? And I'm like, Well, what do you mean? Like, you know, we haven't made a booking? And he's like, yeah, yeah, no, like, you know, if you will see me for you know, his afore mentioned rate or whatever he said, like we're on. I'm like "No, I've told you multiple times throughout the day, and I've sent you a list of my rates, this is what you're paying for that service. Like, we've determined that it's a GFE, we've determine that it's this rate. I mean, if you're not prepared to pay it, Okay, fair enough. But I mean, that's if you want to come and see me this is what you're paying me. He's like, "Look, yeah, no, I get that. But, like, let's look, I'm happy to pay this rate" (Severely under what was my actual rate)
Jenna Love 57:48
Danika Deep 57:49
okay, yeah, no, anyway, I'm just gonna sort of blacklist you don't worry about it. I've told you numerous times you don't haggle. Like I mean, this is the thing. And then he's gone to say, "Oh, I'm sorry, sorry. But like, I was talking to a friend about this. And he said", and this is what's important. This bit just here, folks. It's like he said that a friend told him that this is how it is, this is how the industry works. You negotiate the rates. And I'm just like, "well, I'm sorry, but this friend has really, really misinformed you". And quite frankly, like, I'm in a very, like, fortunate position. Like, I've been in the game for a while I've got a reasonable reputation, there's a bit of demand, so I can turn people back. There's folks that aren't that fortunate. And trying to haggle their rates, I see this predatory behaviour. I told him all this. I mean, that's it. There's some folks that like, you know, this is, you know, they might get a session or two a week kind of thing. And this is what they're trying to live on. And they get some dude, who can pay but he just chooses not to do to the powerplay or something is going to try and haggle their fucking rate
Jenna Love 58:49
because his mate told him "oh that's how it works".
Danika Deep 58:52
Like, you know, these girls, they just charge this and well, they say that, but they really want this or this is what they're happy to take. And it's like, No, no, no, no, that's not how it works. If someone advertises their rates, that's what you paying. If you want to contract their services, cool. You're paying their advertised rates, right? Unless there's certain services which you negotiate like, I do that--like if it's, it's a long period thing. Are there particular fetishes involved? You'll negotiate. But I mean, you know, it's on my terms, right? But this guy, it was not that. It was basically, here's what I'm charging. It's like, okay, I'll just give you 60% of that. Exact same service, but this is what I'm doing. Like, you know, this is what I'm going to offer. It's like, no, no, no, this is not how it works. But anyway, so yeah, I mean, I guess the point of like, that was like I said that was just a crystal clear example of what not to do. If you're going to contract a provider's services, well, you pay that provider's rates. We've all got our place in the market and all the rest of it. I mean, that's thing you find a provider that's providing what you want, what it is that you're seeking for a rate that you're happy to pay, and everyone's happy. You don't you don't start demanding.
Jenna Love 59:59
Well, that's yeah. Like you, I'm quite fortunate and I'm able to turn people away. And if somebody haggles with me, and then goes back on it and says, "Oh, no, that's fine, I'll pay your rate". I still won't see them. Because I think that they're trying to play a game, they're trying to pull power. They're not respecting my time and my business and it just put, like, I think, oh, I don't know if I want to be alone in a bedroom with you. If you think that that's appropriate.
Danika Deep 1:00:23
Well, it's, it's, it's pushing the boundaries. Like, it's the whole idea of "no"
Jenna Love 1:00:28
It's a big fat red flag
Danika Deep 1:00:29
Oh no means kinda yes though, right? And it's like, no no no no no no no. There's hard limits here and you just pushed passed them, or you tried to.
Jenna Love 1:00:37
Danika Deep 1:00:37
And I think like I said, the biggest thing that pisses me off about that, is that there's, you know, there's folks that will say yes, to what he said, and it's up to all of us as providers to hold the line, so that those that are less fortunate than ourselves don't have to put up with those fucking assholes. Because if enough people just shut them down like that, then that one time they contact someone that might cave because of financial pressures, then maybe this person's been told no, been shut down enough times that he doesn't haggle with that person, and they get an extra 50 bucks or 100 bucks, or whatever it is. And that's the difference between making rent, or eating well, or whatever, for the week for this particular individual. So it's just like trying to maintain a standard within the industry, for those that aren't as fortunate all the time, or whatever. Yeah.
Jenna Love 1:01:03
100% 100%. Agree.
Holly Harte 1:01:27
Thanks so much for joining us today, Danika. It's been such a pleasure. You're so honest and fascinating. And we're sure our listeners will find your views really informative and entertaining.
Danika Deep 1:01:36
Oh, yeah. It was an absolute pleasure to be involved. Jenna, Holly, thanks for having me. And, yeah, hope to see you guys around, look after yourselves and keep up the good fight. It's been an absolute joy, much appreciated.
Jenna Love 1:01:48
Holly Harte 1:01:49
Thank you, seeya!
Jenna Love 1:01:53
So every week we put out our episodes on a Thursday, but if you'd like to hear them a day early, we post them on Patreon on Wednesdays, and all of our patrons have access to those episodes. They are ad-free and 24 hours early. There's also a bunch of other perks you can suss out, depending on which tier you choose.
Holly Harte 1:02:15
We'd like to thank our Very Generous Somebodies Lachlan, Timmy, Steve, Our Footstool, Spaceman Dan, Pete, Adelle, The Alice Grey, Big M, Scott C, Sammy Jane, Bart, Barliman, Randy Wagner, Robbie Heart, Andrew, Andy, Leo, Narnie,
Jenna Love 1:02:38
Theodoric, Natalie, Adam Smith, Mal, Bruce McDermaid, Gricey, Pedro, Ben, Dale, John the PM, Mama B, Maddie Andrews, Larry and Leslie. We also have our extremely generous somebodies and they are Aaron, Samuel and Andrew. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week.
Jenna Love 1:03:03
Please look out for us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Patreon. Our name everywhere is Somebody You Pod as in podcast. Our Patreon starts at just $3 a month, and you can get all of our episodes ad free and a day early. Plus bonus episodes, behind the scenes action, bloopers and more. Thank you for taking the time to listen to the voices of sex workers. And remember, Somebody You Love might just be a sex worker.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai