“So what do you do for work?” Whether we are “out” or not, it’s the question we all dread. Holly & Jenna talk about why this question is so loaded for sex workers and share some of the more interesting reactions they’ve had when disclosing their line of work. Our misconception is that sex workers are rich because they charge a high hourly rate, Jenna learns what a “real job” is in Shit People Say, and the Question of the Week is about awards ceremonies.
2:10 Main Segment: So what do you do for work?
47:55 Misconception: Punter math
57:33 Shit People Say: “get a real job useless female”
1:01 Question of the Week: What do you think about awards for in-person SWers?
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Patreon (from $3AUD/month): http://www.patreon.com/somebodyyoupod
Somebody You Love is sponsored by Assembly Four, empowering sex workers through technology: https://assemblyfour.com/
For more info on sex work in Australia, please check out the following organisations:
ACT (SWOP ACT): https://meridianact.org.au/swop/
NSW (SWOP NSW): https://swop.org.au/
NT (SWOP NT): https://www.ntahc.org.au/swopnt
Qld (Respect Inc): https://respectqld.org.au/
SA (SIN): http://www.sin.org.au/sindex.html
Tas (Scarlet Alliance): https://scarletalliance.org.au/links/
Vic (Vixen Collective): https://www.vixencollective.org/vc
WA (Magenta): http://magenta.org.au
Support the show: https://www.patreon.com/somebodyyoupod
Jenna Love 0:02
Have you checked out the Somebody You Love Patreon yet?
Holly Harte 0:05
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Jenna Love 0:10
For $6 a month, you get all of our bloopers and behind the scenes action,
Holly Harte 0:15
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Jenna Love 0:18
And for $20 a month, you also get the bonus episodes as videos,
Holly Harte 0:23
you can cancel anytime. And when you sign up, you get access to everything that we've posted so far.
Jenna Love 0:29
We also have annual subscriptions, where you save 10% and get one month free
Holly Harte 0:34
patreon.com/somebodyyoupod as in podcast,
Jenna Love 0:38
you do have to type in the URL because Patreon hides 18+ creators from the search so you most likely won't be able to find us by searching. That's patreon.com/somebodyyoupod. Welcome to Somebody You Love OR the Sale of Two Titties. I'm Jenna love.
Holly Harte 1:00
And I'm Holly Harte.
Jenna Love 1:03
And we're experts in disappointing our parents, breaching community guidelines, and banging the people who vote against our rights. First things first, we would like to note the traditional custodians of the land from which we are recording, that is the Darug and Gundungurra peoples where I live and Holly is on the land of the Ngunnawal people, we recognise their continued connection to the land and waters of this beautiful place. And we acknowledge that they never ceded sovereignty of it. We pay our respects to any First Nations people who may be listening. It's also always important for us to note that the sex working community is incredibly diverse, which is one of the best things about it, in my opinion. Being cis white women means that Holly and I have quite a lot of privileges within the industry. And that means that we can't speak to the stigma and the discrimination that is faced by our peers, who find themselves sitting more in the intersections of those margins.
Holly Harte 1:58
As always, we can only speak from our own experience, anything that we discuss on here, it's just our own opinion. And that can change from week to week. So please take everything quite lightly.
Jenna Love 2:10
Today, we have the coming out episode. So I think something, something I didn't really think about too much before I became a sex worker, was how much "so what do you do for work?" is like the conversation starter for literally like every conversation you ever have with anyone. Like that's just such a, you know, thing in our society. And I know that there are some people who have kind of pushed against that, because we shouldn't be defined by our jobs, and all that sort of stuff, you know, quite reflective of the capitalist world we live in, I guess it could be argued. But yeah, it's just something that you face all the time. And I know that other communities that sort of have to feel the need to come out in certain ways, whether it's, you know, sexual orientation, or gender identity, have the same thing where it's not just like, there's one big coming out, right? It's not like you literally step out of a closet, and there's balloons, and then you're like, Cool, well, that's done. Like it is this ongoing experience. And as a sex worker, it feels like, no one ever expects that to be the answer. I've never met a single person who said, "Oh, what do you do for work?" And when I've said it, they've been like, "yep, checks out". You know? Like, it's, that's not--no one expects that, no one expects it. And I think every single time that you get asked that question, you kind of have to reassess based on the person based on a whole lot of factors - where you are, if you're in public or not, and you kind of are constantly having to make these quick assessments in your mind. Whether this is somebody that you should tell the full truth to, some kind of a half truth, like, "Oh, I do massage", or one of those kind of, you know, halfway on the way to the sex industry jobs, or whether you straight up lie to them.
Holly Harte 3:57
Yeah, this is something that is a little bit more unique to the sex industry, and I guess, adult industry adjacent work. There's so many things that you do need to consider, as you said, the setting in which you find yourself when somebody asks the question, you know, is it a fancy or intimate dinner with a bunch of really esteemed people where you don't want to upset somebody that you're a guest with? Or are you in a public place with children? Or are you meeting other people for the first time it's, there's so many different parts of it that you have to consider. And I think a lot of civilians are familiar with the idea of sex workers being face in or face out. But when it comes to sex work, you can't exactly be all in or all out, it's very hard to be entirely in the closet about sex work, you must have some form of advertising, and therefore there is some chance that people will find out and then there are scenarios where you feel like you need to disclose your job, maybe to health providers or other relevant situations or relevant parties, and then for the people that you would think are entirely out, people like Jenna and increasingly so myself, there are still situations where we find ourselves that we feel we have to conceal our work, or we have to answer these questions in a way that is a little bit more tasteful.
Jenna Love 5:12
Yeah, I absolutely agree. And there is there's so much to weigh up. I think like, you know, a pros and cons list. For instance, for me, you know, I think the biggest pro about saying to people, yeah, "I'm a sex worker" every single time I do that, I feel like I'm doing my bit for the advancement of sex workers' rights. But that's a tiny little pro. Like you don't get much out of that, are you? And it's like, I do continue to do that, and maybe half the time, the response from the other person is, "oh, I've never met a sex...", they usually stumble over the words and are not comfortable saying it, which is always amusing. "I've never met someone that that does...that does that". And every time I go good. Well, I'm glad I said it. Because you actually have met a whole bunch of people that do that. But you don't realise. But there's also a lot of cons. What do you think are some of the--what are some of the fears that we have?
Holly Harte 6:06
I mean, obviously, as you said, there are 100 cons to every pro. I can't think of many pros, as you said, I just have to agree that almost be a little bit of self sacrifice. Every time we do put ourselves out there and we risk those reactions, and we risk that stigma and we risk alienating people by telling them our work. But it is important to us as a whole to try and advance the movement. And if that's something we can do, then that's great if we can destigmatise one person at a time that sex workers are just ordinary people and the girl at your dog park, the girl at your woollies, the girl whose, I don't know, wherever else you might know me from - friends of a friend, that we exist in society, we're normal. That's super valuable. And that's a little thing that I can do a way of advocating for my passion, in even the smallest of ways. In terms of cons, everything. I mean, the reactions, which we're going to discuss today, the way that people can change their opinion of us in a moment, the risks associated particularly when you're not out in other areas of your life, that some people who you are out to, will meet other people that you are not out to and may disclose your work situation, you know, you can be at risk of violence, I actually was frightened at one point in my life that one of my exes would find out and use that in a way to target me.
Jenna Love 7:27
I think, what's always on my mind, and you know, these days, as you've said, I am 99.999% out about my work, but particularly earlier on, I was conscious that the second I told one person 40 people were going to know, because it--civilians find it so juicy. You know, it's fascinating, and it's, and it's what's the word like? lurid?
Holly Harte 7:52
Jenna Love 7:53
Yeah, and somewhat they need to process that I guess, or whatever. And so I sort of, like I originally sort of told a few people, and then I was like, "Cool, I think I'm done". Because I figured that would just, word will just carry around, which was good for me. Because I was like, I don't want to keep having that conversation, you guys just spread the gossip cool, sorted. But for a lot of people, obviously, that's not great. So even for some people telling somebody that they really think that they trust, there's a lot of fear there because you're not just necessarily making the decision to tell that one person. As we know, people talk and people love to talk about sex, we love it. I feel like we all have to have our own kind of strategy in advance, right? Because if you don't think about this until somebody asks you, when you're kind of caught off guard, you're gonna be in an awkward situation, and they're gonna go, "wow, why is it so difficult for you to answer this question?", so I feel like we all have our own kind of overall philosophy, and then we deal with things on an individual basis. So Holly, What's your general kind of approach?
Holly Harte 8:59
I think that's a really great description of the thought processes that we go through in those situations. Every sex worker I know has a cover story of some sort. They may be less well constructed or more detail, but you've usually got something that you can tell people in a an emergency as it were in a situation where you really feel 100% under pressure, anything "Oh shit, I can't, I can't say I'm hooker. What do I say?" As I've become more and more confident in being out in the industry and giving less of a shit about what people think I've let go of that story a lot. But I still have people like the landlord of the place that I'm moving out of now, who still sees me and says, "Oh, how's your job going? And how's the bar that you work at?" And it's, "oh, it's great". I've got to have these bullshit stories. And it's so embarrassing, but I always have prepared in my head, some little story for how work's been and what's been going on and maybe even during COVID - What was happening with my job during COVID and how business was and all of these sorts of things. So there definitely is a strategy that a lot of us have in place. Generally, my approach these days is more and more open, I am pretty ready to tell most people unless we're in a situation where there are a bunch of children around, or people who I think will be really, really uncomfortable, which is not my responsibility, but I don't really need to go through that awkward social interaction regularly. So for the most part, I'm pretty honest, I just say it, I don't really care. But then there's another thing that just popped into my head that that is really awkward, which is, I'm sure, you know, you can sort of relate to this one a little bit is tradies. I'm really reluctant to tell when I have tradies. Because I feel like once they know, they're gonna ask, they get a little bit, and I don't want to like tar an industry with a brush. But I feel like men when they see a single woman, and they find out she's a sex worker, that they feel like it's an invitation, or not even a single woman, I suppose. But they see a woman who's a sex worker, they sort of see it as an invitation. They think "ah she's just a horny girl". They don't think, "businesswoman with successful, you know, entrepreneur", they think "horny chick who's available". And that's not what I want to sell to them when I want them to fix my carpet. I want them to fix my carpet and go. So I don't have anything strictly in place. It really does depend on on the situation. How about you?
Jenna Love 11:23
Yeah, I've got I had a bit of a journey with it and Mr. Love and I had a journey with it.
Holly Harte 11:28
See you've got that whole other factor to take into consideration. Yeah, that's massive. You've got a whole other person's reputation and social interactions to consider. Yes.
Jenna Love 11:36
and career options. And you know, he and I, we know that it's very common when the two of us speak to people, and they asked what I do I say, "I'm a sex worker", it's really common for them to turn straight to him and say, "Oh, how do you feel about that?" And I'm like, "Oh, yes. Ask the man". Of course, that like, it's, um, okay, this is yep, cool. We're doing it. Anyway. But like Mr Love's wellbeing is really high on people's list of concerns when they ask about my work. So it is something that the two of us have to manage. And we've gone through quite a journey with it. So for the first few years, we didn't tell anyone. And a big part of that was that we were fearful that people would think that I was sort of taking advantage of him. I am definitely the more kind of confident and loud person in our relationship. He's more of an introvert. At home, you can't get him to stop talking. But when we're out in public, that's the way--you know, we are one of those relationships where many people have said "oh you certainly wear the pants, don't you?" which I fucking hate. But that's the dynamic that is presented to some people. As a result, we were concerned that it was going to look like there was some kind of imbalance in our relationship. Obviously, we both knew that that wasn't the case.
Holly Harte 12:59
But even if that was a dynamic in your relationship that worked for you, who's business is that?
Jenna Love 13:04
It is absolutely no one's business, but we were a bit younger and a bit less brazen about our life choices, I guess. And the other thing was, at that point in my career, it wasn't really a career, it was just something that I was doing. And I didn't intend to be doing it, you know, necessarily long term. So there wasn't, it didn't feel necessary to tell people. A big part of that as well was our best mates, our two best friends. I was gonna say they're conservative, but they're not. They're they're very, very liberal. But in terms of relationships, I think that they are a lot more--
Holly Harte 13:37
Jenna Love 13:37
Bit more traditional. That's a good word. Yeah. They both are really into monogamy. And, you know, like we had joked early in our relationships about threesomes, and things like that. And they were always like, "Oh, no", like, that's just a real no for them. And it's beautiful, and we love them. But we also knew this thing of once you tell someone you've told everyone, and we thought if we tell some people, like we, we knew that they were the first people we had to tell, basically. And we were incredibly fearful about how they would react. And you know, the the woman in the relationship, who's one of our patrons actually and a fucking amazing ally, she had said some negative things about sex work in the past, and I'm sure she doesn't even remember that. And there are no ill feelings or anything.
Holly Harte 14:23
I've said negative things in the past before I was part, you know, it's a growth--Yeah, sure.
Jenna Love 14:27
But I had those in my head. And I was like, "she's not okay with it". And I was proven completely wrong, because I completely underestimated my friends and they're actually bloody wonderful. And I should have known but now I do. And so then when we got to the point of wanting to disclose it, we went through a phase of it being we're not going to lie. And when people ask, we will tell them, but they have to directly ask and we were really worried about making bringing people into conversations that they didn't want to be a part of and making other people uncomfortable. So if they would say to me, "what do you do for work?" I would say, "I'm self employed". And then they'd go "in what industry?" And then I'd be like, "ah, like the adult industry". And then they'd be like, "what does that mean?" And then I'm like, "Okay, well, you're fucking asked, haven't you? Here you go. I'm a sex worker, I'm a prossie. People put their dicks in me and pay for it" like this--you're going there, we're going there.
Holly Harte 15:24
Just get really graphic. Cum everywhere!
Jenna Love 15:29
You want to know, you've asked, okay, we're going there. I've given you outs
Holly Harte 15:33
Look the cock straight in the eye, there you go.
Jenna Love 15:37
But, you know, I always wanted to give them an out. I always went, "Well, I'm self employed". And like, was like, you've got the option to stop the conversation now, but they never did. Anyway, then we got to a point where I was like, "You know what, fuck that". Fuck that. Why am I protecting these people from something that exists? From something that is normal? From something that is very common? They don't need protecting from that. They've seen it in the news. They've seen it in movies, they've seen shitty fucking portrayals of it. I'm not doing them a service by you know pussyfooting around it, I'm going to tell them, I'm going to be really upfront about it. And if they don't want to talk about that, that's cool. They can walk away or, you know, whatever. So now my approach is I bring it up all the time, if when I'm doing my groceries, people ask me, I say I'm a sex worker, like I'm really, really upfront with it. But as we said, even though I'm - my face has been in the papers like I'm so out, there are still places where it is necessary to lie. And I don't reckon there are many sex workers who can say that they have never had to lie about it. A big one is housing. I'm so grateful that I own a place, the biggest relief with that was knowing that I no longer had to lie to real estate agents. Because I would never, ever, ever put down my work on a housing application. Because I guarantee you that no one no one wants a hooker living in their home. No one wants that. I mean, I do. I'd be cool with that. Obviously. You never know, maybe there are some landlords out there that, you know, actually are amazing allies. But I mean, the the difficulty with getting housing in the world at the moment, you're not going to jeopardise that even further, are you? So that's a big one. As you said, banks is huge. When you're travelling - when I'm going to stay at hotels or Airbnb, whether it's for work or not. I never ever, ever told them, because they think I'm going to be soliciting in the hallway or something ridiculous. Obviously, when coming into contact with police - I've always been upfront with police, but I'm lucky enough to be living under decrim and really out and have all these other privileges. A lot of sex workers don't want to tell police officers what they do for work. Fair enough. And yeah, that the other thing I was I was gonna say is that it isn't just us, you know it, the people around us have to go through this as well. So it's something that yeah, my husband deals with all the time. It's, "oh, what does your wife do?" Like he has to go through this thought process too. My parents have to go through it all the time. And I know that my mum and dad have been on a really big journey with that, you know, when I first started speaking to them about it, my mum kept asking me like, "What am I going to tell my friends?" And I was like, "You tell them I'm a prossie". And she was like, "Well, I can't, I can't do that". And I was like, "Well, just tell them, you might be surprised at what they can handle", you know, and I think--it's quite nice, actually, she, they told their neighbours for the first time the other day, and she said they had the booziest night. And they were having all these great discussions about it. And the neighbours found it really fascinating. And I was like, "Yeah, I told you people are sick for it, people love it". But, you know, that was really huge for them. They're in their 70s. That was huge for them. And that's been--I know that that's been a really big process for them. How do they bring that up? Because you know, anybody with kids, that's a big topic of conversation, right? Like, "what are your kids doing?" So that's been a journey for them. I know, you know, my sister, that will come up in conversation, my friends, and then you know, people that I've told and then they go, "Oh, am I--?" and I know that my friends have had this thing where they've gone. "Wait, is that my--? Can I tell them that that's what she does? She told me but is it a secret? Is this?" I know that there are so many people who have come across my profile online, and been like, "oh, that's blah, blah". But they'd be like, I don't know if she knows that I know, I don't know if she's comfortable with me knowing and that's a whole thing for them. Any of them who are listening obviously, I'm completely fine with it. You know, it's just yeah, it's not just us. Our circles are really affected by all this stuff as well.
Holly Harte 19:45
Anyone who has listened to basically any of our episodes before will be aware that my work is a very contentious issue with my mother. I have been dabbling in and out of the industry since I was 18. I had a boyfriend in my late teens/early 20s. When I split up with him, he went to my mother's house to try to out me to her as an act of violence, trying to hurt me trying to cause trouble in my life and trying to upset my mother. He did it under the guise of, "oh, I think your mother needs to know, I'm doing the right thing, blah, blah, blah". But that wasn't at all what it was. That was him trying to control me after I left. And yeah, that is an act of violence, I mean, to disclose somebody else's private activity or private situation to people who don't already know, can put individuals in serious danger, particularly when it comes to ended relationships, or already strained relationships with families or romantic lovers or whatever it might be, again, with landlords or employers, I'm aware of workers whose employers in the civilian world have been contacted with evidence of their sex work activities. And that's just, it's just so wrong. And in fact, I think there have been some instances where people have been charged, I'm not quite sure where that is, I'd have to look those articles up, but I think increasingly, it is being recognised as an act of violence to do that to somebody.
Jenna Love 21:12
Yeah, absolutely. It's, it's so disgusting. As you said, it's an act of violence, and it's also an act of control. It is incredibly controlling behaviour. And it's often couched in this, "well, they deserve to know" some kind of moral bullshit. But you know, in certain cultural environments, and in certain familial structures, outing a sex worker genuinely could lead to their death. You know, it is something that is not to be taken lightly at all. We've heard so many stories of people losing their losing their full time job, a lot of people, it's quite common for sex workers to have a full time job. And then sex work is something they do on the weekends for a bit of extra cash, etc. And to cause that person to lose their full time income... I mean what kind of person are you? why, like, what is that? Because you hate what? Women? You hate sex? Yeah, what is that? Why? Why do you want to inflict such crippling harm on somebody? I'm never going to understand that. I think a common thread for both of us has been more fear in how other people are going to deal with the information than us. You know, as I'm sure all listeners of this podcast know, we are so fucking happy about what we do. We love our work, we are proud of what we do. But so often, it's "oh, how is this person going to handle it? Are they going to have a little breakdown? Are they going to start questioning everything they know, am I going to have to deal with all their thoughts and all their hang ups on relationships and sex and women?". And, you know, it's just like, oh, the emotional energy that we have to expend when we tell people, and even a lot of the time, those are positive reactions. But we are asked, like, you know, as I've said, I've made this real commitment to being very, very out. And to always having the conversation anybody who wants to talk about sex work with me, I'm there. I'm happy to talk about it. Because I think that that is the best way of destigmatizing is those one on one conversations, but I tell you what, it's exhausting. And sometimes someone asks what I do, and I just go, oh, here we go. This could have just been a one minute conversation. You know, what happens happens in doctor's surgeries all the time, I go in for a consultation. And I'm like, great. I'm going to be here for 15 minutes while they asked me about how does this work? Oh, and so do you work? Or do you work on your own? Where do you do work from hotels, all this, um, I'm can you do your job, like, you know, I feel like I'm sitting there, counselling them through all this stuff. And I've just never met anyone, like you have just accepted it's and I get that it's exciting for them or whatever. But, as you said, with the tradies, a lot of the time when it's men, you genuinely feel them shift you feel, they they absolutely change the way they look at you. And the questions become quite probing, and I'm here, I sort of feel that I'm walking this fine line of being like, I'm doing activism. I'm getting the right messages out there. And I'm trying not to also TiLite this person, because I feel like the second I walk out of the room, they're gonna grab their dick and blank. And that's not activism. You know that. That's not what I want to achieve with this. I don't want to titillate them, but I do want to educate so I feel like I'm constantly walking that bloody line. I know a lot of sex workers won't tell taxi drivers or Uber drivers, because they always ask. And again, I always have a commitment to telling them, but they will, oh, they'll ask non stop questions. And sometimes then they'll contact you afterwards and try to get a booking. And every single time that's happened to me, they've also tried to lowball me because they're like "oh, we know each other". I'm like "no you just drove me in an Uber. That's not, that's not what--we're not friends, mate". And I don't even give discounts to my friends anyway.
Holly Harte 25:07
A lot of people also find that really uncomfortable, because that's an individual who's just found out where you live or something.
Jenna Love 25:13
Absolutely. Yep. Yeah, it can be uncomfortable, it's not uncommon for people to leave work and walk a couple of blocks down the road before they get picked up by an Uber. Because if they get picked up by somebody who knows that they're a young woman, for instance, near a brothel, then that person is going to, you know, ask a whole bunch of probing questions. And that's it. Eurgh, yuck. So we just have a whole bunch of stories that we would like to share with you, because we've both had all sorts of different reactions, I guess,
Holly Harte 25:43
An interesting one for me was my local dog park. So I've been going there since I moved into this area, roughly, so about five or six years. And for the first few years, I did not disclose my work, I was very much committed to my cover story, I would always talk about this job that didn't exist. So that was a whole lot of labour in itself. You know, and people might think, "Why say anything at all?" and you just don't realise when you're not hiding a job, just how often people ask about work, and how often in your head, you're thinking, "God, can you not talk about anything else?" So for a long time, I didn't. Over the years, I gradually let bits and pieces of information slip, and I became more and more open about it. But there are two scenarios that I think are of note or possibly even more, there has been a lot of use of the word prostitute in that scenario, and a lot of people have used it, either in a joking way, or have just said it. And I've had to do a lot of correcting on how that's inappropriate. And that's not how we refer to sex workers. I have, on occasion, caught people off guard, saying the word prostitute and then they look at me, they'd say, "Oh, er er" They're not talking about me. Maybe they're talking about something in the news. And they start and I'm like, looking at them thinking, you've known me for years, and you still use this sort of stigmatising language that you're not--I mean, if it was any kind of slur against any other minority group or anything like that people would be maybe more conscious of it. And I'm not saying that we're more marginalised at all because of that, but I just feel like people are a little bit more woke when it comes to other things like that. But when I've told them it's something that I find is discriminatory, or that I find is offensive. And it's not a big thing, it's I don't feel like I'm asking them to change their entire language. I'm just asking them to just be a little bit more careful about one word, and doesn't seem to take.
Jenna Love 27:33
I think the fact that they say it, and then look straight at you, like they've been caught out means that if you weren't around, they'd be throwing it everywhere.
Holly Harte 27:40
Absolutely. And that's what's disappointing is that, I think, look, we all say silly things from time to time. And I really don't care if you do say the word prostitute here and there, it's not a big deal. But it's the culture behind it. And I'd like you to work on recognising that we are humans, and that I'm a human, and eventually to the point where you don't want to use that word anymore. Because you don't feel it's reflective of the sex workers that you've interacted with, or the the way that you see them in society. There is a woman who no longer associates with the group at the park. And whenever I'm there, she walks away, and she doesn't engage with anyone there because she doesn't like the prostitute talk is what I've been told verbatim. So that's fine. I am a prostitute. Sorry, Sue. And you're gonna have to deal with that, bye, good luck. I don't have to not be me because you don't like it. The other day, there was a little old lady who I've been sort of talking to and my dog, Hamish, is obsessed with her. And she's very sweet. And the other day for the first time, she sort of said, "oh, so what sort of work do you do? What do you do for work?" And I just had that moment of, "oh, I don't want her to change how she sees me". And she probably already knows, people have probably already said stuff. But I didn't want to do the whole "I'm a sex worker". And then her have to think about how to react to that. And either pretend that she thinks "Oh, that's okay". Or to try to cover up her disgust or whatever her reaction may be. Look, obviously, I'm assuming the worst. But there is a generational thing. And it does tend to be that older people don't react as well to it, in my experience, and I just didn't really want to go through the whole situation where she felt like she had to suddenly come up with a reaction to it on the spot, which is ridiculous. That's not my responsibility, but it really sucked. So I just said, "Oh, I just do some admin". And the worst thing with that is that then people always ask follow up questions. Why do you care? I've given you the most boring example like admin, really vague, and they go for "what for? Private enterprise or for the public service?", and "oh it's just a private--" "Oh, what sort of business--?" Stop! Why do you care? I can't remember any point in my life of anyone telling me their job and me go, can you tell me all the things? I do now. I do it with clients, because I'm genuinely intrigued. They'll say I'm a resources engineer. And I'm like, Yeah, tell me what that is.
Jenna Love 29:50
I do it with clients but I don't care about people I met at the fucking dog park.
Holly Harte 29:56
Exactly. Right. So yeah, that's a little bit of my interaction. and just things that you might not even think about
Jenna Love 30:02
The first person who kind of asked what I was doing for work after Mr. Love and I had had the conversation where we said, "Maybe we should consider being more open about this" was a guy who, I don't know, is a friend of ours and who is very, really kind of open minded and pretty chill dude. And I just, I remember exactly where we were. Me and my husband were in the front of the car, and he was in the backseat. And he asked and Mr. Love and I kind of looked at each other, and we're like, "oh, here it is. We're gonna do it". And so I said it, and I don't think I'll ever forget what his response was, which was, "oh, oh, okay. Yeah, I guess that there'd be a niche for your body type". Which was, I don't know, I honestly, maybe I would have preferred him to just hate on sex work, instead of pointing out I guess how he finds my body type to be so outside of the realm of what's attractive that it has to be into some weird little niche that's just, you know, that's just a fetish or something. You know, I was like, wow, cool. Tell me what you really think about my body like, did not ask but okay. That's all that's the end of that story. I just thought that was a real shit response. And I'm never gonna forget it. I mean, I and even at the time, I had the confidence to be like, "what? I'm, like, booked out all the time. And people spend hundreds of dollars on me like, I don't think it's a niche, babe, I think people are actually really fucking into my body. But your loss."
Holly Harte 31:39
I feel like I get the same reaction in a more subtle way. I definitely get people sort of be like, "Ah", and I know what they're thinking. They're thinking "you're not a size six, you're not conventionally" what they would imagine as high class escort. And oh, well, that's their loss. My clients seem very happy. Thank you.
Jenna Love 31:58
Yeah, they absolutely are.
Holly Harte 32:01
Just a really short one I had recently, in fact, it was probably a bit over a year ago, but I had uh, during my high school years, I was slut shamed to the point of violence. We're using that word a lot today. But I was slut shamed to a horrendous degree in my teen years, by a bunch of males. Funnily enough, a few years after I had graduated, and I was working reception at a brothel, one of them came in and saw a sex worker up behind his wife's back and didn't recognise me at the counter, which was really interesting. And I'm like, "isn't that?" and look, he may have had his wife's consent, but it's just one of those things where you're thinking, "oh, yeah, and I'm, I'm a slut for doing what I want with my body" and look, anyway, years later, let it go, let it go Holly. But there was a wedding in town for one of these individuals. And on the night of the buck's party I suppose, one of these guys found my Twitter account, already knew about it, or they discussed it at the party. And he liked 67 tweets of mine showing my tits and any one with pictures on, any little pictures on my Twitter, he scrolled all the way back through and liked them all, I guess, because he was drunk and horny, and it was titillating to see this girl that he knew be horny and sexy. But the fact that he was with those individuals that night, and I know that the context of that disclosure would have been mocking and taking the piss, was really unsettling and really uncomfortable. And I blocked him. I was quite revolted by that action. I thought Look, I don't care if people that I know know that I work and that they enjoy my content as it were, that's fine. But don't be a fucking creep, basically. And also, it's really rich. I mean, look, I'm not expecting people to come back from the past and write me apology letters and submit financial apologies to me. Look, it's fine. We move on. But there is
Jenna Love 33:49
If they're going to though, just for the record, if anyone wants to apologise to Holly, that is the preferred method of apologising.
Holly Harte 33:55
Financial. Yeah, yeah, we accept apologies in cash. So yeah, but I just think it's just so bizarre that years later, they seem to find this sort of stuff entertaining and titillating and I'm happy and successful and use my sexuality in a way that benefits me and in a really healthy and positive way. And they're still what? Giggling and wanking over--? Yeah, well, yeah. Hope you're happy you guys.
Jenna Love 34:20
I think we could do a whole episode on slut shaming, for sure. I mean, it's it's such a big topic. Like I was slut shamed hard in high school, as well. And I didn't kiss a boy until after school. I didn't hold hands with any--. I was very, very virginal in high school. And it wasn't until I was 18 that I did anything. Obviously, we all know I've made up for lost time now, ba dum chicka wow wow. That's not even how it goes. But yeah, you know, "Jenna is a slut". I was I was called a slut and I think because I have large boobs and a confident personality, I guess? I don't know. But just the - yeah, fucking slut shaming. That's a whole other thing
Holly Harte 35:01
Because we know that breasts are the measure of promiscuity that yes, that's logic. Yeah.
Jenna Love 35:06
Yes. The larger the breast, the bigger the slut. That's, I mean, that does seem to be the logic in a lot of teenager's minds. And I guess, you know, society has a lot to say for that, media has a lot to say for that, you know, the slutty characters always have big boobs.
Holly Harte 35:20
I mean, I think I was called a slut, because of the amount of cocks that I was interacting with.
Jenna Love 35:26
I see a correlation there.
Holly Harte 35:28
Yeah, I think there's something.
Jenna Love 35:30
But obviously, we joke, but that's not okay. You know, unless it's you, reclaiming the word fucking great. I love, like sluts are my favourite people. But, you know, slut shaming, particularly in the teen years when people are exploring their sexual identity, not on mate, not on.
Holly Harte 35:47
Just another quick one for me when I was in the public service at 18, and it was when I was first looking at entering the industry. And I was entering the industry, because it was something that I wanted to do. But I also was in poverty at the time, and people might think you were working in the public service, that's great pay, well, I was at the bottom level of the APS and I had habits at the time, I probably wasn't very good at managing my money in general. Bottom line was I couldn't really afford to eat regularly and to take care of myself properly. So I told one of the girls at work that I was doing my first shift at a brothel. And she burst into tears. And she went and bought me a whole lot of groceries, she went straight to the local grocery store, came back with a few bags of groceries and was like, please don't do this, please. Which was incredibly sweet. And I still think of her. And what a lovely girl she was. She was always just a wonderful person. But the reaction was so severe, and so confronted by the thought of it
Jenna Love 36:45
The bursting into tears upon reaction is really like, oh, wow, like, it's just these people put their issues onto us. And that's, that's really hard. And we go, wow, okay, you've got some problems. But that's not me, babe. Like, whoa, it's just I don't know
Holly Harte 37:05
I think part of it that may be hard for us to recognise is that a lot of people, their sexual history, or their associations with sex, can be really traumatic. And so their perception of us doing this work is that it's under duress, and that it is a traumatic experience. And although, like I said, there was a component of poverty and feeling that I needed to do the work, like under any capitalist situation, the work itself wasn't being done under duress. And I think, potentially, that's where people get, I wouldn't say offended, but when people get really emotional reactions like that, especially when they have no experience with the industry, and maybe that's where it's coming is that they're suspecting a massive--and I think that's probably what it is
Jenna Love 37:45
It's entirely projection, isn't it?
Holly Harte 37:47
Trauma. Yeah. Yeah. And, and that's so often not the case. I'm not saying that we don't have traumatic experiences in our line of work, or that we haven't experienced sexual trauma in our lives. But to to conflate the two is is totally off base. It's entirely incorrect.
Jenna Love 38:03
I'm gonna sort of do some, you know, lounge chair psychobabble here, but I feel like there's a lot, I feel like a large element of it is misogyny and internalised misogyny. Because it is--so often you tell somebody, and their reaction is, "oh, you can't possibly be consenting to that. The smile on your face right now is not real. You're putting on a mask, you're lying to yourself, you're lying to me". And it's just this instant dismissal of, as we say, all the time, sex workers are not all women, but a lot of us are. And it's this instant dismissal of a woman's agency. It's as soon as you say it, they go, "oh, is? Is that something that you want to do? Are you doing it against your will?" And I understand that it all comes out of concern. And I know that nobody's trying to cause us harm. But the irony is, these are the things that cause us harm in the in the sex industry, is everybody outside of it, not believing us constantly and gaslighting us and just sort of going--
Holly Harte 39:13
Assuming we don't have agency?
Jenna Love 39:15
Exactly. And that's the that's the bottom line. And it's really, you know, and I imagine it's amplified for younger workers. We haven't spoken to any of our guests about this, but I wonder if people who go into the industry later in life, don't get as much of that and get, I don't know, I could be wrong. You know, I have a friend who's starting out in the industry, and it's been really illuminating speaking to her and about her friends reactions. She has some some friends who watched her do retail for years, and be this shell of a person and never say a word about her job. And now all of a sudden, she's changed and she's lighter and she's happier. And what she said to me the other day was all of the women in her life I have been quite supportive, but some of the men have had a problem with it. And that's not across the board. But I thought it was interesting. And I just really wondered whether that came from a place of misogyny. Another one of those quotes that people have said to me that really sticks out in my mind is once when I went to the doctor, I went to this doctor because somebody had suggested I look into getting an IUD (an intrauterine device), which is not something that I wanted, but mate, doctors and contraception. Well, don't get me started. A whole other topic. But one doctor was like, "oh, you should get an IUD". And I was like, "No, I don't want to. I've got my contraception sorted". But doctors always seem to have a problem with with my contraception. Except for my gynaecologist, you know, the one who specialises in it, she's a bloody legend. She's like, "These people don't know what they're talking about. You keep doing you". But anyway, I went to this doctor specifically to talk about getting an IUD, which I didn't want to anyway. Obviously, I told her that I was a sex worker that was married, blah, blah, blah. And she said to me, quote, "well, IUDs are really only for people in stable relationships". And I was like, Bitch, what? I? Sorry. We, at that point, we'd been married for 10 years. You know, I was like, "Is that--? Is that not a stable--? What? At what point does that become a stable relationship?" And, you know, I think that she just used the wrong word. And I don't have any ill will towards her, of course. I think that the word she meant was maybe monogamous. Instead, she said stable, and I was like, "mate, I haven't met many relationships more stable than Mr. Love and I's" like, I don't know if you've ever had a relationship as stable as what we have. But yeah. So just that sentence, I was like, "Oh, you've fucked it. Babe. You've said the wrong word". I was like, "okay, cool. I didn't want one anyway, I got coerced into coming here by some other doctor. So I'm out of here. Bye. Cool." I also had a situation where I had to go to the police. I think this was about two years ago. And I went to my local police station, and the officer that I happened to encounter when I first got there was actually really wonderful. I had to make a whole statement. I was there for a couple of hours. He was great. That being said, he didn't know anything about sex work. He listened to my story, and then he was like, "okay, so excuse me for my ignorance, but is sex work legal in New South Wales?
Holly Harte 42:33
That's your job!
Jenna Love 42:35
I was like you're the enforcement of law. Okay. And I said, "Well, actually, it's decriminalised". And he was like, "uhh" I was like, oh, cool, great. Okay, education time, get your notepad out. And I'll explain the laws in you know, the state that you enforce the laws of
Holly Harte 42:52
He was just standing there like should I arrest you? Someone comes in reporting some other crime? And he's like, "Is that illegal? Am I suppose to--? I don't know"
Jenna Love 43:04
"You tell me!" What was great was that he listened to my whole story and then he went, Okay, let me just check. Is that going to be an issue for us? I did not get the impression at all that he wanted to arrest me for anything, he absolutely saw me as the victim in the situation, and was just wanting to see how things were going to play out in the court. So I like it was great, but I just was like, Oh, my God, you don't even Okay, cool, great. But he was wonderful. I had a really great experience with him. And you know, I was packing it, I took Mr. Love with me, I was very, very nervous going to the police station as a sex worker. Despite all of the privilege that I have, I can only imagine what it's like for those with less, you know, especially turning up with my husband, I felt very lucky to have that. To be like, "look at our little hetero, marriage, we're very normal"
Holly Harte 43:58
Jenna Love 43:58
We're stable! But then I had to go back in a few months later, and that police officer had moved on. He got a promotion, and I was like, whoo, go you. But I had to deal with another police officer who again, the experience wasn't bad. But he's going through, we're talking about a situation where I was a victim. And I'm going through this statement, and it takes ages because they've got these shitty outdated systems and whatever. And the questions he was asking about my work, they were those probing questions. And I genuinely, when I left there, I thought "he's gonna book me", as in book an appointment with me. Like when I left, I was like, "he wants to make a booking like, he's really excited by all of this". Like, he started asking me if I do anal, if I enjoy doing anal, and I was like, I'm not sure how this relates to why I'm here at all. Like the fact that I was a sex worker was relevant to the conversation and that's it, though. Like, I just--the second he asked about anal, I was like fucking hell, fucking hell like, are you serious? And you know, I thought - I was just sitting there going, "Wow, you're not good at your job, this is not appropriate". And I absolutely could have taken action with that. But I can't be arsed, mate. But what made me think was of the people who could be in that position who aren't as sort of comfortable with who they are as me and who don't realise that that's not okay for him to ask and who don't, you know, don't feel comfortable asserting themselves around that sort of thing. And I just was like, that's really disgusting. So you know, all cats are beautiful! Mr. Love has been using Manscaped products for a few years now. And he swears by them. He's been using the Lawn Mower 3.0. And also, sometimes I steal it from his bathroom, and I use it too. I'd say don't tell him but he's editing this podcast. And yes, despite the name, the product itself is actually gender neutral.
Holly Harte 46:10
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Jenna Love 46:32
Of course here at Somebody You Love, we believe that you should groom or not groom your body hair however you wish. But trimming is a great option because you don't have to worry about all of the hassles that come with shaving or waxing, like ingrowns, micro cuts, that awful itching when it grows back and also irritating the delicate skin of your lover. If you're visiting a sex worker, it's the perfect way to ensure that everything is neat and tidy but with no breaks in the skin that can increase your risk of transmission and infection.
Holly Harte 47:05
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Jenna Love 47:34
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Holly Harte 47:55
Our misconception this week, we know you've missed this segment, is we call it punter math. The misconception is that sex workers are rich or that they're all rich or that any of them are rich. The assumption comes from the idea that sex workers let's say they're charging $500 an hour that then that's times by 40 hours a week. And then 52 weeks a year means that we're all absolutely fucking loaded. I can tell you now I would dress a lot better than I do. I would have all sorts of fun plastic surgery, I'd have a house in Yarralumla, one on the Gold Coast, I'd have a lot of different things going on if that was the way that that the income worked. But there are a lot of reasons it doesn't work this way. Obviously, you know, the idea of any sex worker doing 40 hours of bookings per week is wild, the fact that a lot of us have a lower hourly rate for longer bookings, and then all the other stuff that we have to do during all of that time and our expenses affect those numbers.
Jenna Love 49:00
I think we've said it before on our show, or maybe that was on a bonus episode where we said, I think for you and I is somewhere between a quarter and a third of our time is spent in bookings, meaning a quarter and a third of our time is time that we are paid for. So even if we work a 40 hour week, we're not being paid for 40 of those hours at all. We're maybe being paid for 10 of them. So there's a huge amount of work that obviously that's, well it's not unpaid work, but it's the work of running your own business. As you said expenses, I don't think people--the higher you charge the somewhat more of an expectation there is that there are things like expensive hotel rooms involved. Maybe champagne, I don't know what the fancy people do but sometimes
Holly Harte 49:50
Nice towels, nice shoes
Jenna Love 49:51
Nice bedding - bedding is very expensive and we go through a lot of it. It gets laundered a lot so we run through it. Nice lingerie is - I don't don't know how many people know that like a full lingerie set of a exxy brand is upwards of $500. Like that's for those little bits of lace 500 bucks, you know? And I gotta say for every person who--because there's no mistaking that there are people in the industry who are, quote unquote, rich. And there are people who make a million dollars a month of OnlyFans, those people exist. But for every one of those, I reckon there's 50 who are living under the poverty line, easily. And the hard thing is people don't see that. Because that's not an attractive marketing strategy. It's not, you know, no, no business does that. McDonald's doesn't put out "Oh, our profits are actually really bad this year. So please come buy some burgers". No one does that. Right? That's not--it's not sexy. It's not hot. Poverty ain't hot. So the image that we put out publicly, is one of you know, a certain level of wealth, of comfortability. A lot of the the issues with us not having agency and our work being coercive also comes into play, because we're all out here, trying to prove that we're here by choice. And it's not out of desperation, because if it's out of desperation, then it's invalid, and bla bla bla. And I've seen people on forums, talk about how we were lying about there being people in the industry that don't have money, but I have seen those, we have all seen those people, we know these people, and I don't know what to say to you, if like, you can just not believe us, I guess. But these people are not openly saying, "Hey, I can't make rent this week". But they genuinely can't make rent this week, those people exist.
Holly Harte 51:44
And they're often not the people you expect. I think a lot of people think that this is going to be a quote unquote, lower end workers, but there are workers that I know that are charging exceptional amounts of money per hour, who are really struggling, then there are people who tend to question the business model. And look, that's not anyone's business. However that person chooses to run their business is their choice. But I think the perception that because somebody charges a certain rate means they're wealthy, is wild, you're also not factoring in tax. And I know that we've had this discussion before, and we'll have it again and again and again. But the idea that we don't pay tax is mad because sure you can make stacks and stacks of cash and not pay tax on it, great. But if you want to make any serious money moves, as an adult in this world, be it buying shares, paying rent, buying groceries, everything's online, that money has to go in your bank account. If you put substantial amounts of money in your bank account, and you don't declare it to the ATO, it doesn't take long for them to find out. And you will get pretty severely penalised if that's the case. So sure, I'm sure there's a massive amount of tax evasion in Australia in many industries. And I'm sure that cash based situations does lead to a little bit of that sort of situation. But as a whole, you got to pay tax, that's just the situation. That's just the world we live in. And then superannuation. A lot of our listeners, your superannuation will be paid by your employer direct into your super account, and you probably barely ever look at it, you probably maybe don't even know how much is in there right now. A lot of us haven't had super paid by anyone in years, not by ourselves. That means that we're not growing that interest. We don't have compound interest at work for us. Often, especially in the past, we've had it eaten up by fees when they had all sorts of insurance policies when our, especially if your superannuation isn't consolidated. All of these things combined to mean that you've got no super
Jenna Love 53:35
I think we should say for international listeners that Super is like, how would you put it? It's like a retirement fund, a government controlled retirement fund.
Holly Harte 53:45
Jenna Love 53:46
Yeah, yeah. In America, it's a 401K, they're always throwing that at us, the amount of conversation/debates I've had online with Americans being like, "oh, so do you have a 401 K?" And I'm like, "Oh, do you have a clue that your country isn't the only one in the world?" And yes, I do have Super, thank you.
Holly Harte 54:03
Yeah. So that's another thing that we have to contribute to. So after we pay X amount of money on taxes and expenses and da da da da da, we also then need to pay what 10-15% Super to be anywhere near the same level as other people who are earning a living in this country. And that's just the way of it.
Jenna Love 54:21
It's also I think, something again, that isn't talked about much is how many sex workers are carers for other people. You know, the job really suits--Well, there's two facets to it. The job suits people who have disabilities themselves, and thus may have to spend a lot of money on medications and treatments and things, but it also suits people who are caring for parents, children, children with disabilities, other relatives, whatever. And as a result, I know quite a few sex workers who are sending a lot of money back to their family in a different country, who are paying for their you know, their parents retirement living, who are supporting siblings, you know, there are people who two thirds of their money they don't even see because it goes to other people in their lives. And that's, that's not an uncommon situation. And again, that's not sexy. No one's putting on Twitter. "Oh, good. Two thirds of today's bookings are going to go to my grandma". No one's doing that, you know. But that's--and I understand that people in all sorts of industries are in the same situation. But this idea, you know, it seems like a lot of other industries don't get this, "oh, well, you're earning $500 an hour so you must be millionaires".
Holly Harte 55:34
And you and I are in a position where we're both, I suppose you could say, without sounding too wanker-y, we're both quite successful, we are both steadily booked, we have good groups of regular clients and our work is consistent. And we are very lucky. And that is, you know, a lot of privilege. But it's also a lot of hard work. There's a lot of reasons. But the bottom line is you and I are quite comfortable. We're quite successful in this industry. And we still have a massive amount of bills, we have expenses, we have all of these things to keep up with that mean that we're not living in luxury. We're living again, comfortably. We're very lucky. We're not in poverty. And we recognise that massively. But yeah, it's definitely not a case $500 x 40 hours, when you average it all out over how many hours you do for a booking that you do at a reduced rate? Or maybe you have some clients that you've had grandfathered for seven years or something.
Jenna Love 56:21
Mmhmm a lot of them. Yeah, there are a lot of us, our regulars aren't paying the advertised rate.
Holly Harte 56:26
Yeah, because they've been with us for so long. And there's some element of goodwill and loyalty there that we appreciate. And we factor in. Yeah, and then all those other hours. And again, if you guys knew how much money Jenna spends on her fucking hair, it's just crazy. So yeah, we're not here to do the whole "oh, we're poor sex workers", Jenna and I are incredibly privileged, we're not going to sit here and go we're the most successful in the industry, because that's not true. But we are both very privileged, and we're very lucky and you will not see us, you know, dripping with gold and diamonds and doing anything ridiculous. We're definitely not doing 500 x 40 x 52.
Jenna Love 57:04
I also have to mention, you know, income insurance is near impossible for sex workers to get any kind of work cover, you know, sick days, long service leave, obviously, none of that applies, which again, is the same as anybody who runs their own business, they don't, you know, get those things. But you know, yeah, the insurances, and it comes down to all of these things that discriminate us make it that much harder again. It's time for Shit People Say, haven't done one of these for a long time. I got a lovely comment from a man named Jacob, who said, "Go get a real job useless female", which I thought oh, like, you know, tell me you're an incel without telling me you're an incel.
Holly Harte 57:51
Yeah, the F word.
Jenna Love 57:52
Yeah, exactly. And then he said, unrelated. "Hahaha, your dad probably yanks it to you". Which I just, you know, that doesn't upset me to hear that. But what the fuck is going on in your brain, mate? What the fuck? Like what? Like, Oh, mate, people just show such disturbing brain contents when they comment on the internet. Some random commented and said "You mean like she should make cringy music and post it online" because Jacob has some very cringy music posted online. So lol thanks to that person. Anyway, I said hi. "Hi, Jacob. Thanks for the advice. So what would you define as a quote unquote real job?" Because obviously I want to take on board Jacob's advice, so I need more direction. He said, "Well, certainly not prostitution. Haha, maybe start with I don't know, at least retail". And I mean, honey, I was raised in my parent's retail business. I did start with retail. I started at retail at the age of like, 10 like, don't fucking school me on retail. But my response was, oh, coming back to our money conversation. "And how is that going to cover the six figure salary I'd be leaving behind, Jacob?". What is your plan there? Why do you want me to leave what I'm doing now to do an entry level retail position for 40 hours a week, take a massive pay cut and hate the world? Why do you want that for me? So his response to that was "haha, yep. See, throw money in people's face proving you don't even care about what you do. Hahaha. quote I do people a service that I'm passionate about and do good for people like you care. But no, it's because you know, you will never have any normal life skills to make money with Hahaha what a failure" and like, Okay, well, I don't know. I don't know what you want me to do with that information. Again, it's that thing of "oh, all you do is care about the money" well you want me to get a job in retail. Am I supposed to be passionate about retail? Am I supposed to be passionate about profiting off slave labour to make clothes for 10 cents a garment and selling it onto people at an absurd markup? Is that what you want me to be passionate about? And then "Oh, and don't forget, every male in your family tree has come to a photo or video of you".
Holly Harte 1:00:15
Like why is that what his brain goes to? Like you said
Jenna Love 1:00:19
What is wrong with you? And to be honest, I don't know if this is the wrong thing to say, but if they have that doesn't really have any bearing on my life. Like, what does that mean for me? Okay, maybe they've all done the same to you, Jacob. Like I don't know. If people are gonna jerk off to you, people are gonna jerk off to you. I don't know what I'm like. I said, "I've worked retail babe. I've worked plenty of crappy, exploitative jobs that paid the bills and nothing else. I ain't going backwards". And at that point, the conversation, you know, a whole bunch of other people came in and started quoting the Bible. So things went really well. And it's pretty boring after that point, I think. Yeah.
Holly Harte 1:01:00
Question of the Week. Jenna, what do you think about awards for in-person sex workers?
Jenna Love 1:01:07
Do you want my honest answer?
Holly Harte 1:01:09
Jenna Love 1:01:10
I think they're fucking absurd. I think it's absolute bullshit. So for anyone who isn't aware there are, I guess, I'm sure they exist in other countries as well, there are some people that like start up, like award ceremonies, I guess, for sex workers. And in one sense, like I understand, I think for porn performers, it makes sense. To an extent it's similar to like the Oscars, right? Because there's videos that are out there. And if they are videos that are accessible by everyone, if they're publicly put out videos, then it makes sense that people could vote on them. Unless there's this this board of experts in the field who are sitting together and going through and judging, you know, the finalists. If it's not that, then it's going to be user voted, in which case, it's just a popularity contest. And we know that the people with the most privilege are going to win, so whatever. But at least to me, that makes sense. In terms of in-person sex workers, I just don't understand it. The first time I got nominated for one of these things. I was nominated in a few categories, one of them was 'best covered blowjob'. And at that point, I was like, I don't think I've ever given a covered blowjob in my life. Who the fuck nominated me for that? And then and who is nominating? And then who is judging? You haven't? Like, it just doesn't make sense. Unless you have this board of people who are going around to every nominee, and ranking them according to some rubric, which is fucking disgusting. And I'm not suggesting that happen, then how is there an award--what does that mean? Again, it's just a popularity contest. And all it means is the person who wins best covered blowjob is whoever spruiked it the most on their Twitter. I don't get it, doesn't make sense. So I think it's gross. I don't think that we need to be having who is the best at this particular sex act? Whose butthole is the best of being rammed, like fuck off. I think it's gross. What about you? What do you think?
Holly Harte 1:03:08
Jenna Love 1:03:10
Cool segment done.
Holly Harte 1:03:11
I really have no more to contribute. I think you said it all.
Jenna Love 1:03:14
Okay. It's so gross. It's so weird. I'm not into it.
Holly Harte 1:03:18
Jenna Love 1:03:19
Let's just not. I know a lot of us kind of boycott those things, because they're just yuck. And I feel bad because sometimes clients will be like, "Oh, I nominated you". And I'm like, "Oh, that's really lovely of you... but I don't want that".
Holly Harte 1:03:30
Yeah, I appreciate nominations and stuff. And I love awards. And particularly, I really like the Australian Podcast Awards. And I think, yeah, hopefully we win that I'd be really impressed. I feel like we've got it in the bag, I'm manifesting this.
Jenna Love 1:03:44
It's next week. It's around when this is coming out.
Holly Harte 1:03:46
Yeah, yeah. But that's obviously a measurable, you know, you can have a committee who can sample the things and give their opinion.
Jenna Love 1:03:53
Yeah, we had to submit a certain amount of time of recording and, you know,
Holly Harte 1:03:58
Don't tell them that, pretend that somebody else nominated us. Yeah. Don't tell--somebody else put us forward.
Jenna Love 1:04:04
All right, fine.
Holly Harte 1:04:06
Oh! We never saw this coming!
Jenna Love 1:04:07
Holly Harte 1:04:13
We'd love to thank our superstar patrons this week. As always, you are so generous, and we appreciate your support. We hope that you love all of the random bizarre content that we we share with you. We'll start off with our Even More Generous Somebodies, thank you to Timmy, Andrew, Adam Smith, Leo, Lachlan, Sub London, Miss Billy, Nora Knightley, Lesley, Scott Watson, Andrew, Big M, Our secret admirer, Mudgee, Margaret, Weezy, Celeste, Ellen, Liam, Fritz Yatitz, Catherine and Paul
Jenna Love 1:04:48
And our Extremely Generous Somebodies are Aaron, Samuel, Andrew, Pete, Theodore Betts The First Esquire, Amanda Valentina, Sienna Saint, Breeno, Ad Amor, John T, Nick, Wombat and Harry. Thanks so much. We've had a blast chatting again. We'll see you next time.
Holly Harte 1:05:13
Jenna Love 1:05:16
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