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EPISODE 19 Somebody You Love has herpes

Updated: Nov 28, 2021

This week we are joined by Rubi Valentine to discuss the porn industry, starting sex work at a young age, and STIs. We talk about health checks, safer sex, disclosing a positive test result, and the stigma around STIs. For Shit People Say, Rubi introduces Holly and Jenna to the concept of apology pumpkins.

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Jenna Love 0:01

Do you miss the free and affordable ads and social networks without all of the anti sex rhetoric?

Holly Harte 0:06

Assembly Four is a team of sex workers and technologists from Melbourne, Australia, aiming to bring back free and fair advertising and social spaces to the sex working community.

Jenna Love 0:15

stepping away from the clunky design of traditional platforms, their two products tryst dot link and dot at refreshing and well needed changes in both presentation and mission.

Holly Harte 0:26

And both are free to join and open to all.

Jenna Love 0:29

You can find both of our profiles on tourist and I love how it is so clearly designed by sex workers.

Holly Harte 0:35

Yep, and I love how straightforward and easy it is to use and how much they clearly support the sex working community.

Jenna Love 0:41

And also have responsive they are when it comes to feedback and customer service.

Holly Harte 0:45

Check out their website Assembly for the word, not the number for more info.

Jenna Love 0:56

Welcome to Somebody You Love for the sale of two titties. I'm Jenna Love.

Holly Harte 1:04

And I'm Holly Harte.

Jenna Love 1:06

And we're experts in disappointing our parents breaching community guidelines and banging the people who vote against our rights. Hello, thank you for tuning in. Before we get stuck into today's episode, we just wanted to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land from which we are recording today. I'm on Darug and Gundungurra. Land Holly is calling in from the land of the nanowall people and Ruby is calling in from borloo. We'd like to acknowledge that sovereignty was never seated at always was and always will be Aboriginal land.

Holly Harte 1:42

Ruby Valentine is a Perth based full service sex worker and porn performer who got started in the industry at a young age and hasn't looked back. She's a Scorpio who identifies as a Virgo, and she'd take a gangbang over a threesome any day. Ruby is passionate about breaking the stigma around STS. And that's a topic we get asked about all the time, so we thought we'd pick her brain about it. Hey, Ruby, welcome.

Rubi Valentine 2:07

Hello. Hi. Thank you for having me. Thank you for that honi introduction.

Jenna Love 2:14

Absolute pleasure. We just Holly and I both just told Ruby, how attractive we find her and she got to be shy, so sorry about that. straightaway. So first of all, we would love you to tell us your story. How did you get into the sex industry?

Rubi Valentine 2:33

So I actually started when I was 17. Which is obviously illegal. Probably not recommended. But it was I started one out of curiosity into I suppose just a survival I needed money. I'd always been interested in sex work. Like from the moment I found out it was a job. I don't even think I'd kissed a boy. I just thought that it sounds incredible. Like what a hack. Of course, I'm going to try that when I can. Yes, we understand. Yeah. Yeah, I was like, What do you mean, you can get paid for being pretty? Oh, my God, say no more. And then, yeah, I started at a brothel, obviously a dodgy one because they did not ask for ID. And I did that for a couple of years and thought it was just so glamorous. It was not the brothel. I worked. I was so sheared. The receptionist was always missing like that. Yeah, I mean to be 17 and then 18. And just have, I guess, all this expendable income. It was super fun. And then I took a bit of a break. I got a boyfriend and a real job or a government job, actually. Yeah,

Holly Harte 3:47

Terrible. Terrible.

Rubi Valentine 3:51

Yeah, at the tax office of all places. Sorry. Sorry, I was there for a few years. And on this side was still doing a little bit of sex work. I suppose I was sugar babying just probably for the thrill more than anything. Yeah. Which I mean, I hated that. Actually. I much prefer, I guess, proper escorting or brothel work. But at the time, it just seemed like a like an easy little quick fix, because I was missing sex work. And then eventually quit that and went back to full time hooking at a brothel and then eventually private and then starting porn. About three years ago,

Holly Harte 4:30

around 75% of Australians have been infected with HSV one and around 12%, which is roughly one in eight with HSV. Two, many people have it often without knowing but it's still treated as such a taboo. What motivated your public disclosure in this regard, and how's that been received?

Rubi Valentine 4:48

I don't know. I don't know if I've had much feedback. I kind of just blurted it out on air, really. I'm pretty open about most things. And I think it was on Tesla's podcast and I just got clear media. My throat, which was kind of I don't know if exciting is the right word, but considering all of the, like natural blowjobs I've given in my lifetime to only have just gotten chlamydia in my throat. Yeah, I guess it wasn't little exciting. And so yeah, we had we had a podcast interview scheduled for that day and I yeah, I guess test was just sort of like, what have you been up to? And I was like, well, funny. You ask. I have chlamydia in my throat.

Jenna Love 5:33

Can I jump in and say so that's the it's so hard podcast, which you might have heard us before. We'll have it linked in our show notes.

Rubi Valentine 5:40

Great podcast. Great to have Aeon retests? Definitely. And then from that we were just talking about stos in general, I suppose. And I do remember thinking like, Oh, am I gonna, am I gonna do this? Am I going to mention herpes, or, or not? And then and then it just sort of came out like word vomit. And now the whole world knows that have herpes.

Holly Harte 6:04

But as I said, it's so common, like, this is just something that just doesn't get spoken about. So

Rubi Valentine 6:09

yeah, it's so common, I think, still, people are so scared of it, which is surprising considering how common it is. I feel like every time I hear a statistic on it, it's grown. I just tell people, it's like two thirds. And now it's like, what, three quarters of the population? No, yeah. What did you say? 75%. And

Holly Harte 6:29

three quarters? Yeah, these were Australian, recent Australian ones. But yeah, it's a lot.

Jenna Love 6:33

So Ruby. I had a similar experience. I got oral gonorrhoea last year. And this is actually the first time I've ever sort of talked about that publicly. And I felt the same way as you I thought Jesus Christ out of all of the deck that I have. So yeah, over years and years, and when I was diagnosed with it was actually in the middle of COVID. lockdown. I had only been with three different people since my last test. So that like three people in three months is a very low body count for me. Yeah. And I was like, of course of all the times that I would actually contract an STI, it would be during fucking lockdown. When I've been with so few people, those three people all tested negative. I have no idea where it came from whatever. But you know, I got a job in my bum. Actually, my husband and I went and got treated on the same day, which was our anniversary, it was very romantic. really understand. It was so cute. We were like, let's get a job in the foam. And then we go out to dinner. It was lovely. But um, and he had tested negative for it as well, but we just got treated because obviously, we're intimate together. You know. And then a week later, I got another test. And it was and it was done. And I thought, I really want to be open about this. And I want to speak more about it. Because it's a thing that happens I have sex with people. So at some point, I'm probably gonna have an STI. Yeah. But I still had this thing in my brain where I was like, Oh, God, is it gonna affect my business? Do I really want to put that out there? You know, there was still that shared? And it yeah, it feels good to get it out there. But yeah, I had a similar similar experience to you. Yeah, I just

Holly Harte 8:07

want to share how I can relate to that situation, Jenna, because I touchwood I very, you know, I have been in the sex industry on and off for many years now. And I have never had any STI diagnoses any incidents during while I've been a sex worker, but I've had a lot of decay in my life. And I've had a lot of rodyk in my, in my youth. And the one time I got chlamydia was when I was in a committed relationship. And then the guy gaslit me, he was like, Oh, you've been, you've given it to me. And I was like, No, I think with anyone else for the like, Oh, it's you. It's all you anyway, obviously that's a very simple fix. That's that, you know, I think what is it the most common STI in Australia or worldwide, got one off, and super, super easily tradable? But I was like, isn't it funny that the stigma around sex work and around STI is and you know, you just don't know, it's, it can happen anytime, anywhere. And it's, it's much more common than people realise. And it's also often not really a big deal. Like

Rubi Valentine 9:13

No, I mean, when, when I when I got chlamydia in my throat, like, kind of similar to you, Jenna, I had stopped giving natural blow jobs for quite a while, just I mean, I don't know, I just decided I didn't want to anymore. And so I only had a few clients that I had to reach out to, and they all got tested. Well, I mean, they say they did, and then they all came back negative. You know, I get tested pretty regularly, like especially as a poor performer as well. So I don't know where it came from. I mean, I do have a suspicion. But yeah, I guess I guess you don't really know. But yeah, it was it was very surprising that that is the first time that I've had something Yeah,

Jenna Love 9:51

I mean, there's part of me that goes maybe it was a false positive because false positives do exist. Yeah, but I think statistically, they're, they're not so Super likely, you know, and yeah, in my case so it was my husband and two regular clients. Yeah. Both of those clients said they went and got tested again said they were negative. Maybe they weren't. Yeah, they weren't. but not both of these clients I've seen for years. I feel like I know them. I don't think they'd have any reason to Yeah, to lie, but it doesn't really matter. I mean, I didn't need to know where it came from. The fact was, if you're coming into contact with human beings we have there are viruses, there's bacteria, there's things like things pass on and we, you know, we're in the middle of a bloody pandemic, like, we know that things get transmitted between people. And that's just the reality of it. Yeah, I

Rubi Valentine 10:39

mean, every every time you fuck there's a risk, isn't it? I mean, obviously, we can do things to minimise the risk, but it's, I mean, yeah, STI is they exist?

Jenna Love 10:48

Yeah. Yeah. So when you first presented with herpes syptoms I mean, you were quite young, what was your kind of initial thought, your initial reaction and your thought process, oh, my God,

Rubi Valentine 10:59

my career's over. I just started working. I was I maybe been working for about six months or something. For actually, it took ages for it to be diagnosed because I didn't I didn't have any visible symptoms. So I just had like a lot of pain and I was really rundown like I had like the flu pretty much and the my doctor just traded it as a UTI, but it just did not get better. And it wasn't until about two weeks later that I then had a lovely little blister, which I actually thought was an ingrown hair and picked at it. And the next day there was like that one booster turned into like 10 blisters and I went to the doctor again and he was like it was really painful. And yeah, and then that's when he was straightaway like you're you have herpes and yeah, I just I felt so disgusting. I felt so bad because I thought I had probably passed it on to people. I also had a boyfriend at the time who didn't know what I did. So that was really scary as well you know, sort of thinking how am I going to tell this guy like he's gonna think that I cheated on him or like something? Yeah, so it was it was stressful. And I

Jenna Love 12:22

yeah, at that age, I can't imagine Yeah, at that age like

Rubi Valentine 12:27

herpes seemed to be like the worst thing that could possibly happen to you as well like out of all the STI is like herpes was the one that I don't know scared me the most for some reason. I was kind of like used as

Jenna Love 12:39

I think to say when I was in high school that was that was the go to wasn't Yeah, you don't wanna get herpes like it was you know, I

Rubi Valentine 12:47

don't know why ridiculous how that happened. I guess I don't know herpes does seem to carry more stigma maybe because it's something that I guess you have forever. Whereas you know, it's

Holly Harte 12:58

incredibly treatable. Well, okay,

Rubi Valentine 13:00

so manage manageable. It did not ruin my life. It did not ruin my career. Like I continue to work it's fine, but at the time, it was like oh my god. No, I'm so unsexy. No one's gonna fuck me ever again.

Holly Harte 13:13

I've proven that wrong hey, yeah.

Holly Harte 13:18

My what effect has working in the adult industry had on your personal sex life if any?

Rubi Valentine 13:26

I don't I don't have a lot of sex in my personal life. I think it's probably made me more boring in that regard. Like, I'm probably more inclined towards like, long term monogamous partners, as opposed to

Holly Harte 13:43

maybe because of sex work that Yeah, just so much fun sex that you exactly something different in your personal life? Yeah, yeah,

Rubi Valentine 13:50

no, I fully fantasise about making love with my long term husband, you know, in our suburban house. That's like my go to Wang fantasy.

Holly Harte 14:01

Oh my god, are you me? Yeah, Toby wife is my dream. Like I just

Jenna Love 14:10

talked about this before the show where people have this idea that as sex workers, we have this like, crazy wild sex. And I'm lucky enough to see why I do live with my long term husband. Like clients all the time are like, Oh my god, how does your husband keep up with like your insatiable sex drive? I'm like, oh, like, drive. When was the last time we had sex? Like, yeah. We have a normal life. Like, yeah, people know. Yeah.

Rubi Valentine 14:38

My personal sex life is just I like to hold hands with somebody that I love. Love that. Yeah. But yeah, it's probably just, I don't know. I mean, sex work is just like having a lot of casual sex, isn't it? So it's

Jenna Love 14:53

Yeah, I think renumeration Yeah, yeah, yeah,

Rubi Valentine 14:57

so I'm not really I don't really want to do that for free. Yeah. So basically if we kiss in my personal life then we're husband and wife. That is a proposal and I accept.

Jenna Love 15:09

at first. I find like, because I took a couple of years of sex work, and in that time, I was like, Oh, I want to have like, casual sex. And I was like, because I do quite like meeting strangers and having sex with them. That's something I enjoy. But then as soon as I went back to sex work, I was like, Well, I don't want to do that, because I'm already doing it. So it kind of gets any need for doing kinky, wild, crazy shit. And yeah, I feel like it gets sorted by our job, and we get paid for it. And then we can just relax and have our nice little boring lives.

Rubi Valentine 15:41

Yeah, pretty much so.

Jenna Love 15:44

So Ruby, you and I were just chatting before we started recording, actually, because you have worked for, you know, different kind of porn studios, whereas I've only ever created my own porn. So the porn industry has changed a lot in recent years. And now there's sort of the more boutique independent studios, particularly in Australia, we don't sort of have the same massive porn set up like they do in the US, for instance. Now there's direct to customer options, like only fans, there's Co Op style setups. So do you have a preferred way of making porn? Do you have thoughts on the different ways of doing it?

Rubi Valentine 16:20

Yeah, I absolutely hate only fans, and creating my own content. So and I love being a studio performer. It's just so much easier. I'm always really impressed by, you know, only fans, creators and people who really exceed in so producing their own content, but it's, it's not for me, I, I like to just rock up on set and only have to worry about performing and then getting paid straightaway. And then leaving and then forgetting about it until I see a little GIF on Twitter three months later. But it's I mean, like you said, In Australia, there's it's a pretty small scene. So there's only a few companies that you can really work for, which is a shame. I would love to do more porn if I could, but I just yeah, making myself is not for me. It's a lot of work. And I also am just not very creative and good at technology. And I also hated having to edit everything myself. Yeah, I didn't know spending so many hours just like looking at zoomed in clips on my pussy is a lot. I don't need to see my pussy like that. But I also I don't watch any of my videos back like, I'll maybe like skip through and look at some of the stills. But I find them too critical. I think I mean, I guess most people are I don't know. But yeah, having to edit and sort of choose like the best angles and all this sort of stuff. It just wasn't good for my mental health. You know, I my self esteem is, is like pretty dangerously high. But like I yeah, my little foray into only friends was like, Oh, my god, that was it was too much. Maybe it maybe it wasn't? Yeah, it's a lot. And I also found people were just so demanding as well. And it's like, what you're paying me $12 a month? For what? No,

Jenna Love 18:12

well, they they're paying $12. And you're getting a percentage. I'm

Rubi Valentine 18:17

getting $9. Yeah. I mean, like, I do think I like this movement of people being in charge of their content and owning all the rights and you know, not having duplicate to anyone. Well, I mean, it's like only fans of platforms. But I'm just lazy. So yeah,

Jenna Love 18:35

I've always said, I think one of the best things about the sex industry is the flexibility and the diversity within it. And so yeah, I agree. It's great that that is, there's a push for that. And that, that that is an option for a lot of porn performers and people that are that are working their way into the sex industry. But if it's not the right one for you, yeah, then how great is that, that there are other options. I think I also found

Rubi Valentine 18:57

it hard to sort of switch off when I was trying to run an only fans account. Whereas Yeah, when I'm shooting with a company, you know, I just I just broke up. I'm there for a couple of hours, I'm reimbursed for my time onset. And then I leave and that's it. Whereas with only fans, I'm having to sort of message client, more fans or whatever you want to call them. Also, the website is just shared and takes hours to upload anything and it was Yeah,

Jenna Love 19:23

it's an awful website. Yeah.

Rubi Valentine 19:24

Yeah, you've

Jenna Love 19:26

made me really excited about actually our listeners might not know that Ruby and I were scheduled to, to film a porno together months ago. Yeah, and that was going to be my first ever time recording with a with a studio with you know, doing like proper porn. The way I see it in my mind. The Delta variant came along and all those plans went to shit sadly, but you've made me very excited for when I hopefully can probably do that. It's

Rubi Valentine 19:56

fine. It'll be quite like a social aspect is What I enjoy the most you know obviously when you're working privately like full service sex work you see a lot of sort of waiting around by yourself and same with when you're producing your own content if you're doing many solo scenes which is what I was doing because it was during lockdown, but yeah it's it's just fun being on set with like a bunch of sexy people.

Jenna Love 20:22

Whenever we have a guest on the show, we give our patrons an opportunity to ask them questions. So as usual, we did that this week. And I think almost all if not all of the questions are about safer sex and STI 's and stuff so let us just dive into them. How do you

Holly Harte 20:42

screen a client for any potential sexual health issues and how do you deal with a client with a cold sore for example,

Rubi Valentine 20:49

I've never had a client come in with a cold sore actually if that were to happen I think I would probably still do the booking but I would just do no kissing and no oral on me yeah Have you heard that have you guys had a someone broke up with a console?

Jenna Love 21:05

No I don't think I've ever seen a client with no I would my approach would be the same yeah just be that we yeah contract kissing oral on me and I have had a partner in my personal life have a cold sore and that's just what we did so yeah, I feel

Rubi Valentine 21:21

like people when they get cold sores they usually very like cautious with that you know and it's not conscious yeah cuz you know they're like right there. So no, I haven't had that screening for other stuff though. I mean, yeah, I guess just you do a health check at the beginning of the booking.

Jenna Love 21:39

So for our listeners Do you want to explain like what you might do in a like a brothel health check

Rubi Valentine 21:46

a brothel health check. Okay, so brothel health check I feel it's a bit more formal it's Yeah, it's kind of the first thing you do. So you know the take the money then you do a health check. So you kind of get them into the corner with a little dodgy lamp ears and get them to work their decal getting to pull the foreskin back and lift up their balls and stuff and yeah, you're just kind of looking for anything a little abnormal I suppose like you know, little bombs so I don't know maybe like funny smells or discharge

Jenna Love 22:19

even cuts I'm always conscious of if there's any kind of broken skin

Rubi Valentine 22:23

Yeah, like open kind of wounds and I haven't actually failed anybody on a health check I've been pretty lucky I have been called in to the room for a second opinion and even then most of the time to meet you know, obviously I'm not actually a doctor but it's sort of looks like you know, like say like thrush or maybe like a different sort of rash like eczema or something around you know, but yeah, it's you know, kind of learning to tell the difference between like herpes and ingrown hair. A war a mall? Like it's it's hard

Jenna Love 23:00

Yeah. And of course we all know that doing a physical visual health check does not determine whether somebody has an STI Oh no, I absolutely can alert you to the fact that you know if they do have any physical symptoms, then then obviously you will be able to see them. But so many don't. I've never found someone for a health check either, but I'm pretty sure Holly has Oh shit. Yeah.

Holly Harte 23:24

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. As a private worker, I think I've only had one or two I do recall one definitely where that was quite concerning, but in a brothel. Oh my gosh, all the time. The amount of individuals that we used to have coming in who would have very serious obvious warts like and I don't mean like a little one here or there. I mean, it looked like cauliflower. I mean, they I was like, how do you find your penis in amongst like, this should be on Ripley's Believe It or this should be in the Guinness World like this is like wow, honestly, hectic style stuff. And off it because at the time, a lot of the time I was saying this sort of stuff. I was the receptionist. And that get me in for the second opinion. And I'd sort of say to the client, like I didn't want to shame them. But I'd say, you know, isn't this uncomfortable? Or isn't this issue like, should you not maybe see, have you seen a doctor about this? And they'd always say, Oh, no, no, no, and they'd be you know, embarrassed. And I'm like, Well, obviously our staff can't see you with this but I'm thinking for your own health. Why would you not have gone to the doctor like well before this point? Well, before it was so

Jenna Love 24:27

hectic, okay, massive generalisation. But I feel like almost every woman has been to the doctor when they've had an ingrown on their downstairs, freaking out and the doctor has been like it's an ingrown. And then the reverse is all these men that have full blown wards who wanted to go to the doctor, like it's such a no brainer.

Rubi Valentine 24:45

What is that about?

Holly Harte 24:46

I think men do tend to be quite reluctant when it comes to going to the doctor, particularly when it comes to sexual health issues or, you know, they hope it'll just go away or if they don't look at it, it doesn't exist and that's not really ideal when then Go into a brothel where a girl is going to have a really good look at your penis and find quite confronting things. And the sad thing was that often, we know that they would just drive down the road and go to another brothel and just hope they'd get serviced there when we turn them away. And like, oh, it must be uncut. Like some of the things that I saw were all

Rubi Valentine 25:19

like, when, when I've had a herpes outbreak, like, it's fucking painful, like I can, you know, I remember my first one, I could barely sit down, like, the last thing I'm thinking about is fucking Yeah, that's, yeah, and surely the

Jenna Love 25:34

fucking would be really unpleasant like that. more painful, you would think.

Rubi Valentine 25:39

I mean, just imagine, right? Even you know, when you have thrush, and you sort of have to push it up to booking it's like, that is it's so I don't know, when

Holly Harte 25:48

I, when I was looking after the brothel, we had these little business cards for the sexual health clinic. And so when we have to turn a client away for those sorts of reasons, I'd give them that. So just give this number a call. It's totally private, it's really discreet, and professional. And the next morning, you'd find the business cards, they chucked on the ground as they left the place because they were not going to go. Super disappointing. But anyway, that's that's my own tangent. But as a private worker, I just don't see it. I don't know whether it is that the lower cost of brothels maybe attracts people with a lower sexual health, education understanding, you know, or, or that sort of thing. I don't know whether there's any overlap with that. Whereas private workers, maybe because it's so expensive. I don't know, there's some correlation. Maybe not.

Jenna Love 26:30

My thinking is perhaps there's an assumption that the people working at a brothel are going to be less discerning. Yeah, they choose to take money from which is absolutely not correct.

Rubi Valentine 26:40

Which is rude.

Jenna Love 26:43

Rude and incorrect. And, and, and really kind of predatory, if any? Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Holly Harte 26:49

Anyway, I hope gradually, society allows men to realise that it's okay to get sexual health checks, and it's okay to go to the doctor. If your penis feels weird, like, that's fine. Yeah.

Rubi Valentine 27:00

Yeah, I was seeing this guy recently. And we actually went and got sexual health checks together. And it was so hard.

Holly Harte 27:06


Jenna Love 27:08

Yeah. I had a hookup ages ago, it was just before COVID so forever ago, and the person I was hooking up with, they were poly and, and pansexual. And we sat down on the bed, and he opened up his little baggie of prophylactics and it was almost as extensive as mine. And I was so around. I was like, holy shit you carry. I mean, he was on to like it was travelling around. So you know, he carried it around with him. Yeah. And it was just the sex is he even had internal condoms. And I was like, Oh, my God, I can't. I'm just dripping hold. so wonderful. I'll never forget how great that was. Yeah, it's funny. I think it's interesting how much stigma there is even around something like cold sores. A few months ago, I was in a booking and over the course of the booking something had like developed on my mouth. And when I went to the bathroom, just at the end, I went to go to the loo. I looked in the mirror, and I was like, Oh shit, what is that on my mouth. And when I came back in, I saw the client and I was like, Oh, this sounds like it, it looked like it could potentially be the start of a cold sore. I've had two cold sores in my life. So I know that I have the herpes virus, and that it is something that I can potentially get both of those times with during exam periods, you know, and thankfully, I don't have that kind of stress again in my life. But anyway, I thought, you know, I obviously carry the virus. So it could be that I walked into the room and the client straightaway said, is it Do you mind if I ask if that's a cold sore? And I said, honestly, I don't know. I mean, it could be it seems like it could be the beginning of it. He actually was a nurse. So it was really cool about it. I said, Look, I'm gonna go get the virus or whatever. But you might want to get tested, I had sucked his cock without a without a condom. He was really cool about it. And I was like, just get in touch. If there's any issues, whatever, you know, we'll work it out. That was my last day of working for the end of the year, and I was then can be taking a break. And I had two bookings after it, which I had to cancel, because I had this potential cold sore. And yes, I probably could have gone ahead with the bookings. But you know, kissing is a really big part of my bookings as well. So I wasn't into and I felt really unsexy with this thing on my mouth. So I cancelled them. And I posted on Twitter about it because I thought this is you know, this is the life of a sex worker. these are these are realities that we have to deal with. And I posted saying, you know, I've got this thing, and I showed it in the video, I said, I don't know what it is, but I've now had to cancel those bookings. And, you know, the client I just saw had a little bit of a scare, and that might be of interest to people because these are the things that we deal with. One person in particular, really lost it at that time was talking about how I was admitting to having herpes. And I was, you know, a really irresponsible sex worker for you know, and I was like, wow, You've got this sort of wrong facade. As it turns out, it was not a cold sore. It was a cut in my lip anyway, so it doesn't, but that's not the point, whether it was a cold sore or not is not the point. But the way it was framed as though I was a bad sex worker for being open about potentially having something that could be transmitted something with which half the children I know have had, like it's cold sores or not. They're everywhere. They're everywhere. And I just thought, well, this is the exact reason why we have to talk about this stuff. This is why, you know, and then I had a whole bunch of people, so many sex workers contact me and say, Oh, you're so brave. Thank you. I had a cold sore scare. I had this blah, blah, blah, I'm waiting on tests, and I'm terrified. Yeah, it's that fine line between we should speak out and normalise it. But it also doesn't need to be a huge announcement because it doesn't just a normal thing.

Rubi Valentine 30:54

Well, I mean, there was a Facebook, I used to get really paranoid that like, you know, I would feel so guilty that I may be passed on to clients or some or like, you know, people in my private life because I, you know, would have been sick. And then like, would notice if you guys are like, Oh, actually I think I'm about to have herpes outbreak and I feel so awful. But like, I remember talking to a doctor about it once and she was kind of like book. I can't remember what the age was, I think she said something like, most people have been exposed to the virus by like their mid 20s. So if they haven't sort of shown visible symptoms by then then they're probably like immune to it or they're one of the carriers that just don't have visible outbreaks. So yeah, I mean, I haven't bothered to fact check that I was like, Okay, I'll keep looking then. It's fine. Check. Yeah, it's I don't know. It just exists. Like, yeah,

Jenna Love 31:46

Alrighty. So finally moving on to the next question. I was contacted a while back by a lady I saw regularly that she had had a test come back positive. And we then had to contact another lady who had joined us. Have any of you ever been contacted by a client informing you that there may have been exposure?

Rubi Valentine 32:03

No, I haven't. Have you

Jenna Love 32:04

Holly? Yeah, yeah, that's

Rubi Valentine 32:06

good that they contacted you? Yeah, I'm impressed.

Holly Harte 32:11

I was when I was it was when I was a baby private hooker. So I was, yeah, it was about five ish years ago, I had a client who at the time had done the sort of pussy slide thing and sort of rubbed it and I sort of went, look, these days, I'm a lot tougher, I don't sort of let them get away with that shit. But at the time, I sort of whatever. So he pressured me into it. And I didn't assert myself but you know, I think I'm gonna put a little bit of blame on him. And he, he contacted me one day and he said, I just have to let can't remember the exact conversation. But you know, it was like, I just have to let you know that I've had some pain while paying and there's been some issues and the doctor suspects a an STI, so I'm getting tested. I felt a bit late, you know, and I was like, okay, so I went and had all my tests done. Like, the next day, I cancelled all my bookings for the next two weeks, and I, you know, start to go through the process. And he got back to me a few days later, and he said, Oh, it's okay. It was just a urinary tract infection. And I was like, Okay, I said, So did you tell the doctor that you was that you'd slept with a sex worker? And he said, Oh, yeah, yeah. And I was like, I don't know Look, I'm not going to make any massive assumptions. But I do get this inkling that it's a totally horror phobic reaction from the doctor. Oh my god is probably an STI, you better get tested. And I lashed out at him with a fairly on offer and I was like, this is something you really need to clarify. I think before you raise the alarm, maybe other people will disagree maybe maybe other people will say you should let them know as soon as you suspect but I felt like I had cancelled all my bookings i'd freaked out and attempt to go get the test and everything and it turned out that he just you know, had a UTI which is like everyone gets that system you know, that happens it's not an STI So I said to him, I think that he's his fear was from a latent homophobia. And that, you know, he pressured me into rubbing his penis on me and then acted like he's like, I was dizzy. Somehow. Yeah, and I felt like yeah, it made me feel really shit. And so I told him by and and since then, yeah, there's I don't let anyone do that sort of stuff anymore.

Jenna Love 34:20

I've been contacted once. And it was kind of a similar story. So it was a client in a brothel, who spent half the duration of the booking trying to put his dick bear inside of me. And it was constantly trying you know that you know, that game where you're just constantly like, thrusting your pelvis away. Yeah, I was just like doing the I'm again, I'm always doing movements on the podcast, and no one can see them. But yeah, where you're constantly Yeah, just trying to twitch your pelvis out of the way. And it was just it was a really exhausting booking because of that. It was just that the whole bloody time and then I think it was two days later. I got a text from him. We must have exchanged details and I got a text saying Got chlamydia or something about chlamydia. And I and I was instantly SAS because I just added it. It was just all a bit odd. It was only two days later. So I was like, Well, you've not got it from me. And it just I think it was a Sunday that he texted, which I was like, What have you just put your results from the doctor that did nothing about it sounded right. But I did the right thing. I booked an appointment for the next day went and got tested. I said, I think I've come into contact with somebody who was positive for chlamydia. I don't think there was much genital to genital contact. But there certainly may have been a little bit, you know, and the doctor said, Look, let's just give you the tablets for chlamydia, and will test you and then, you know, if then you get the results back and they are positive, then you've already begun treatment. So I did that. The results came back negative. And so I don't know whether he had it and was trying to pass it on to people. Or if he was just trying to, like he obviously could tell that I wasn't comfortable because I was I made it very clear that I wasn't comfortable with him coming into contact with my genitals. So maybe then he knew all that this is a sore point for her. So I'm going to try and freak her out. I don't know, it was fucking weird. But that's the only time I've acted by clients.

Holly Harte 36:13


Rubi Valentine 36:13

So anyway, right? Yeah, no, I've had none of that. I've just I mean, yeah, I've had to, I've had to message clients. But that was a Yeah, and I only had to message three. Yeah, they will pretty fine about it and appreciated me reaching out.

Holly Harte 36:29

I think we can all act like adults, you know, if if a circumstance came up where a client contacted me and said, Hey, Holly, really awkward got to let you know, I've been tested positive for this. That's fine. I pray I'd rather you let me know. Absolutely. There are instances where people I think are letting people know things that they're not sure about. And that's when we start to get a little bit. Things get a bit cloudy. We have received a bunch of questions about oral sex. So the first one is, is the same protection used by sex workers when doing oral with a pussy versus a penis? Do we use

Rubi Valentine 37:03


Jenna Love 37:03

But yeah, the question is, they probably don't know about it. Yeah.

Rubi Valentine 37:07

So it damn is, is it's just like a, I guess a rectangular piece of latex pretty much that you just sort of spread over your pussy. Oh, you're also even. And that kind of acts as the barrier? I don't use them. though. I have a couple of times. But I just I just don't I mean, I guess I you know, I always sort of thought that maybe the risk of transmission that way is a lot lower than I guess other ways. So maybe that's why I'm a bit slack are lenient, but I mean, if I was with the client, and they wanted to use one, like, of course, that would be fine. I just, it's just not really in my my toolkit, but I should probably change that and have them available in case

Jenna Love 37:54

Yeah, actually, I am. I've always had them in my talk. Anyone who, too, is to Queensland will, because by law, right, you kind of have to have them with you. Okay. Yeah. So, so I've always had them, but I have used them on bots. I've used them for remain, but I've never used them for going down on someone with a pussy. On Me purse. Again, it's always an option for clients. But I think because I squirt in such high volumes. I'm not sure how it would work. Like I think it would just

Holly Harte 38:24

blow it. I slip inside, slip and slide all that liquid.

Jenna Love 38:30

And then I've had a couple of female clients who have asked if we can do scissoring. And I've always said Oh, like it's actually something I've never done. And I've sort of gone on Look, I'm not opposed to the act. But I don't know about actually rubbing our genitals together. That's a bit far from me. And I guess we could potentially both put dams on, but I don't I don't know if that worse. Yeah. I don't know. Because too, it's like putting two condoms would rub against I don't know, well, maybe just one in between? I don't really know. But the answer to the question is no, not the same protection is used there are dams which are designed for that they are used far less often. Yes. Say then condom for for a blowjob on a peanut? Yeah,

Holly Harte 39:18

I think I think so. I just want to mention there is a little fact sheet somewhere. I can't remember what Health Organisation it's from. I wish I did, but it actually discusses the rates of risk associated with various sets. And, and, yeah, I think respect and cunnilingus is, is it's very low risk of transmission. Yeah, for most STI. So it's, it's Yeah,

Jenna Love 39:46

and I think receiving kind of Lingus is the lowest and giving kind of lingers is like the second low. Yeah, kissing is around that somewhere

Holly Harte 39:54

at safe as far as those sorts of activities go.

Jenna Love 39:57

It is still a possibility. So that's it. It's a great question to be asking and a great thing to be to be thinking about. So in this world of oral The next question is, I think and hope that everyone appreciates the need to wear a condom for penetrative sex. Let me tell you right now they do not. Yes, wise, but can I everyone in the room here does, but can I ask about the risks with uncovered oral sex? And do the majority of sex workers insist on a condom for oral as well? Now obviously we can't all speak for the majority of sex workers but we can talk about ourselves.

Rubi Valentine 40:33

Yeah, I use condoms when I'm giving blowjobs I didn't used to nothing like bad happened for me to sort of switch I just I think I wanted a bit more separation from the blow jobs I was giving you my personal life actually more than anything. But it's you know, it's it's sometimes it's just part of people's kind of like standard service. Sometimes it's an extra to give a blowjob without what do you what do you guys do?

Jenna Love 41:01

So I prefer without? I hate. I don't hate I really don't enjoy giving a blowjob with hate the little dangly? Yeah, really not into that? Yeah, yeah. So I'm not really into it. I have done it. Because if that's a client's preference, then 100% I'm happy to do that. It's fine. But the main reason why I don't do it is because I'm just not that in. I just don't like it personally. No. and Holly,

Holly Harte 41:26

I prefer to give blowjobs with a condom where I can so I actually quite like the feeling of latex in my mouth. I enjoy it. I also like the lower risk. Yeah, for me, I feel like it's a risk that I I just don't really want to go through the whole nuisance of the antibiotics, and then maybe the needle in my butt if I end up with anything. You know, I don't I don't foresee those sort of issues being well life altering. But I just prefer not to be inconvenient.

Rubi Valentine 41:51

Yeah, it would be

Holly Harte 41:54

terribly inconvenient, it wouldn't be a fun and affects your income. Yeah, definitely. So I do offer baby BJs but at a substantial extra cost. So it's not exorbitant, but definitely the going rate for BB HB JS as an extra is x and minus a little bit more than that, because, you know, that's sort of serves xx x. Well, yeah, it's sort of serves a purpose in that. One, it means that fewer people doing it so it means that when I like between testing, I have fewer, I have fewer instances where I am sucking cock raw. And it also means that when I am I'm well compensated for it. So if I did need to take the time off, if anything happened, yeah, but that wouldn't be as affecting me as much financially. So yeah,

Rubi Valentine 42:38

I remember actually when I kind of stopped giving baby BB, BB b. j, triple B, bareback boy jobs. And he was she got it. You remember when there was like that, like super gonorrhoea going around?

Holly Harte 42:53


Rubi Valentine 42:54

yeah. And it just I was so scared of getting that, that I just Yeah, yeah. So I think I think that's probably when I when I stopped. And also, probably I was I was making a bit more money than I used to, I don't really know what sort of changed but I guess I would, yeah, I was a bit more privileged. And in this position where like, I didn't need to say yes to every extra. Yeah, so that's also what changed. Yeah.

Jenna Love 43:23

So to answer the question, do the majority of sex workers insist on a condom candidates that maybe it's 5050 maybe not added or depends on the circumstance? I think anyone that's like me who does primarily bareback blow jobs, it is always dependent on a health check. Even though privately the health check is not as extensive as the the brothel style that Ruby outlined for us. If I say anything that that looks a bit sassy, even if there's Yeah, just open wounds in the skin, which that's not indicative of an STI. But it obviously just means there's more risk of any kind of infection. And phimosis is a big one. I won't do bareback blow jobs to men who have or people with penises who have phimosis, which is when the foreskin won't retract fully. And I am one of the things I've learned from working in this industry is just how many men have phimosis Oh, it's

Holly Harte 44:16

incredible. I was only my flight today about how many individuals can't get their foreskin back. And they want to do the work to stretch it because apparently it's a thing where you can stretch it back. Yeah. This wild to me.

Jenna Love 44:31

Yeah. And in that case, I can't see the head and I can't so I can't really do a health check properly. So that's why I insist on condoms in that situation.

Holly Harte 44:41

Our final patron question is, I am a married lesbian vagina owner in the US who has recently begun seeing independent companions. When I've broached safe sex and using barriers like dams for oral ahead of our dates. Both times the workers response has been to say that other than having oral sex during an active herpes outbreak, which they say is easy enough to detect and avoid. There's not much that women can pass back and forth. So barriers are not really used other than putting or changing condoms on toys that will be shared. Granted, I've been married to my wife and out of the dating scene for aeons, but this surprised me so much so that I opted to forego oral on my first date. The second one has not occurred yet. What are your thoughts and feedback team?

Rubi Valentine 45:27

I mean, I guess yeah, like I said, you know, if somebody asked and wanted to use protection, yeah, that I mean, it's hot to me that somebody is responsible for the sexual health. So yeah, but yeah, I mean, like, what we were saying, I suppose the risk is lower, but it there is still risk there. And if I had that request, I'd probably just go and buy a whole bunch of dams.

Jenna Love 45:52

Yeah, it definitely surprised me, I feel the same way the risk is on the lower side. That doesn't mean it's non existent. But if I had a client who said, what do we do in terms of barriers with oral sex? I would say, well, these are our options. Yeah. Let me know if you you know, I think I think that's if somebody is bringing that up. I think that's really important. I am surprised that the workers have just gone on. It's not an issue. That's a bit.

Holly Harte 46:19

Yeah, I agree. I think, you know, Ruby summed it up perfectly. If If a client expresses any interest in protection that they're comfortable with, then 100%, I'm happy to offer it. And I think most sex workers that I have interacted with would be on the same page. I don't know if it's just the individual maybe that this person has been dealing with or if it's a geographical thing, that maybe it's different in the US. You know, as he said, it is exactly as he said, it is lower risk, but there is always a risk inherent in sexual activity. So if that's what is part of your comfort zone, then either Yeah, maybe best to look for another provider

Jenna Love 46:54

be that they don't have dams on them. Like you were saying, Ruby, because they're not that common, because we don't get as many clients who have vaginas. Because they you know, you can't buy them from Kohl's. So they're all from the grocery store, I should say.

Rubi Valentine 47:09

Yeah, you can't get a condom. Yeah. So you know, there's,

Holly Harte 47:13

I just don't think that's a good enough excuse, Jenna? I'm not impressed.

Jenna Love 47:16

Yeah. My point was that, if it's brought up in the moment, it's possible they'll kind of go Oh, I'm not prepared for that. Yeah. But from the way that this the question asker has posed the question, I think that they have asked about it beforehand, although maybe not. Because in the US, you can't really talk about stuff beforehand, which is another reason why we need decrim I think it's great that they've bought up putting in changing condoms on toys that he shared. That's one that I think a lot of people miss. Yeah, if you're taking a toy out of one orifice and putting it into another one, whether that different orifice is on the same person or a different person, you really want to be cleaning it in between and or putting condoms aren't changing the condom on it definitely.

Jenna Love 48:04

COVID-19 has had a significant impact on the sex industry. And snap lock downs and travel restrictions mean that there are times when sex workers require emergency financial relief in order for them and their dependents to stay safe housed and fed.

Holly Harte 48:18

sex workers don't get sick or holiday pay, and many have no savings to fall back on. The stigma and discrimination that we face means that some have no proof of earnings to access government support. And of course, migrant workers are often forgotten

Jenna Love 48:31

Scarlet Alliance and their state and territory member organisations joined together to create an ongoing fund that is hosted on the website chuffed that ch u f f Ed.

Holly Harte 48:41

donations are tax deductible. 100% of funds raised go directly to sex workers in need. And most weeks the amount of people apply outweigh the amount of funds raised and sadly people have to be turned away. The link to this fund is in our show notes.

Holly Harte 49:01

Ruby has generously brought along her own shit people say this week. We're very much looking forward to hearing somebody else's shit experiences. Yeah, go ahead.

Rubi Valentine 49:13

Okay, this is an old client of mine who I have now finally blocked for good is in person. He was fine. The booking was easy. It was just an hour out No, there was a good band, or whatever you want to call it. It was just it was he was very pleasant in person, but in between our sessions. He just had a few too many check ins. A few too many questions that I don't know he could have googled and this anyway, he sends me this message and I went off I blocked him and then he dropped over a bunch of homegrown vegetables and an apology note

Holly Harte 49:56

I got a restraining order on a guy like two years ago for pretty much Almost exactly the same. Yeah.

Rubi Valentine 50:02

And I mean, I endorsed him because the veggies were good.

Holly Harte 50:14

Yeah. And

Rubi Valentine 50:15

I felt kind of bad. He's you know, he's I guess he's still he's like this elderly guy and he basically had like prostate cancer. And so he's, you know, he was just trying to like, get a few more fucks in before he's been stopped working and

Holly Harte 50:31

prostate cancer survivor clients who Yeah, yeah, things, you know,

Rubi Valentine 50:37

locking him and feeling so much relief because he was one of those clients. I just feel so anxious and worked up before the booking but then we do the booking and I'd be like, Oh, that was often nothing, but then it would just repeat again every month. And so that happened, but then I got home one day and it was beautiful pumpkin there and it's like letter and I was like, oh, maybe it's not so bad. I

Jenna Love 50:54

don't know. Can I ask what the message was? Yes,

Rubi Valentine 50:58

you can. Hi, Ruby. still hoping to catch up with you later this week? We'll let you know date time ASAP when I can. In the meantime, a question. How do you guys protect yourself slash clients against HIV when you offer services like BBB j? dfk. And six nine services?

Jenna Love 51:14

Well, for starters, we're not transmitting HIV.

Rubi Valentine 51:20

Well, I okay, so yeah, I mean, that's basically what I said. I was like, first of all, I don't offer BBB j anymore. And I'm pretty sure you can't get HIV from kissing. The rate of transmission from oral sex is incredibly low. It's my understanding. Can I ask why this question is coming from to which you said my research on the internet Why are you messaging me then?

Jenna Love 51:48

I feel like he was researching STI s and he saw what he learned was that HIV is a thing yeah and then he stopped researching at that point he was I was like, okay, Ruby will tell me more about

Rubi Valentine 52:01

it was very much like man discovers HIV you know and then like and then messages his mistress is like what this is no oh my god, it

Holly Harte 52:12

was more like oh, I was thinking about sex and I thought what's a way to get in touch with Ruby and have her interact with me for free? That's down the line thinking in my opinion

Rubi Valentine 52:21

and then there's more I see I don't have a message for it anymore because I had to delete the whole conversation because it just pissed me off so much. I kept going back to read it and like going to send the message back you know what? He said, I'd obviously send something that was like you know, I get tested, regulate, blah, blah, blah. What about you? He said, Hi, Ruby. I was tested for STDs many years ago after the secretary I was having an affair with told me she had tested positive for something my results came back all clear. This was in that 70s this affair, just so you know, because I've heard about it. Many times. He hasn't been tested for 40 years. Something Yeah, yeah. The audacity since our first appointment, you have been my only sexual partner. So if you want to serve regularly, you should have no concerns about me. Have you been tested since you returned from Darwin? barking hell?

Rubi Valentine 53:18

I don't reply I get another one. I'm not an expert on STDs clearly,

Holly Harte 53:23


Rubi Valentine 53:26

But my brief search on the internet indicated that HIV can be transmitted by saliva vaginal fluids and sperm a professional lady I saw some time ago indicated that the latter was the greatest risk for you ladies who is this lady I

Holly Harte 53:39

want to have words

Jenna Love 53:43

I've missed

Rubi Valentine 53:46

yes yeah to say man Yeah,

Jenna Love 53:48

well they said oh my god he last got tested in the 70s That's why he's just discovering HIV

Holly Harte 54:03

Oh jeez,

Jenna Love 54:05

guys wow I mean I know a lot of people don't get tested regularly but the fact that is wanting to know I know there was a man who went I got tested many years ago yeah and i that long

Holly Harte 54:17

ago I know and then to like point the finger at you like

Jenna Love 54:21

oh my god when you literally do porn where you like show negative Yes.

Rubi Valentine 54:27

And then to drop me off a pumpkin and for me to accept that pumpkin and be like, you know like it's okay.

Holly Harte 54:33

She had a Cinderella is good enough.

Rubi Valentine 54:37

is good and I realised this now because just last week, he messaged again,

Jenna Love 54:42

oh my god, this is great.

Rubi Valentine 54:44

He always checks my Twitter and like I you know, he's allowed by Twitter's there, but then he doesn't follow me on Twitter, but he was texting me about Twitter.

Jenna Love 54:52

Yep, I got one of those two.

Rubi Valentine 54:54

It's It feels weird, right?

Jenna Love 54:56

I don't like it because I think if they if they are engaging on the platform with us then that's helpful for our promotion totally yeah then just looking at it and then texting us is just taking off

Rubi Valentine 55:08

it's just free conversation. No Yeah, there's no Yeah, yeah. Hi Ruby enjoyed the veggies. I did. I forgot to ask why so many pictures of your tongue on your Twitter looks like there are some little lumps on each side.

Holly Harte 55:23

Oh what tonnes scaloppine I've got like a spot is that what he means? No like this shape?

Rubi Valentine 55:29

Yeah, I will I also don't think I I maybe there's two pictures of me with my tongue out I don't know. Like I also don't want to have to scroll through my Twitter to check like do I have Are you looking don't get off my

Holly Harte 55:54

tongue action.

Rubi Valentine 55:56

I spin it as two tongues tops if there's more I don't want to know I'll do a cleanse after they're hot.

Jenna Love 56:03

I've counted one so far I

Holly Harte 56:06

don't banner image

Rubi Valentine 56:08

oh I can't come on it like come on. That's a funny thing. And it's hot Yeah, tongues are hot well I had that's just

Holly Harte 56:18

tongue Scott that's the shape of someone's tongue where their teeth What's that? Yeah yeah, that's like yeah not everyone has a bit it's a normal thing it's just

Rubi Valentine 56:28

it's just a tongue and then I yeah, I just was like I post pictures of my time for the same reason I post pictures of my tits covering calm like it's just you know, some of the like it whatever. It's I don't know

Jenna Love 56:39

if you've heard but I'm in the porn industry.

Rubi Valentine 56:42


Holly Harte 56:44

sure. Yeah, whatever. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so the tongue Yeah, not impressed. Is he okay? Yeah, yeah, thank

Rubi Valentine 56:51

you. Thank you for letting me know. Oh my god, but yeah, I've Yeah, so after I wrote him, what was his response?

Holly Harte 56:59

Do you eat the pumpkin with that time? Oh my God.

Rubi Valentine 57:02

He said Oh, he just said Okay, thanks for the education so he must have known that I pushed him off and then I and then I've got him and I'm yet to receive any apology pumpkins, so

Rubi Valentine 57:12

but if he's listening, I don't want them

Jenna Love 57:19

Oh, that is that's hysterical. Ruby. Thank

Holly Harte 57:21

ya. Thank you for sharing I love the I've been wanting to get it off my chest I've been waiting for a platform thank you so much for joining us Ruby it's been an absolute blast learning all about you and it just for you educating us and our listeners it's been brilliant and destigmatizing sexual health and and issues concerned with that and teaching us a little bit more about the porn industry that's something I have no experience with so I'm super grateful. Yeah, we were really glad you took some time out we know we've taken a lot of your time with this and we appreciate it.

Rubi Valentine 57:56

No, you're so welcome. Thank

Jenna Love 57:58

you. Thank you so much for all the love probably a lot of them will get cut out but the three of us

Rubi Valentine 58:07

I'll keep the loveseat laughing You know thank you for Thank you for having me. I've had heaps of fun. It's nice to meet us.

Jenna Love 58:15

in person at some point yeah. Post pandemic, by Siri

Holly Harte 58:21

v catch. We'd like to thank our spectacular glowing shiny amazing patrons again this week as always, we are so grateful for your support. It really does allow us to grow the show and and hopefully expand in future and make it even more enjoyable.

Jenna Love 58:42

We have a new generous somebody this week and that is mark on you very generous somebodies Ali, Daniel B. And Mona banks are even more generous somebodies. Timmy Andrew, Adam Smith, Leo Laughlin, sub London, Miss Bailey, nor Knightley Leslie Scott Watson, Andrew, big M. Our secret admirer Maji. Margaret weezy, john T. Celeste, Ellen and Liam.

Holly Harte 59:13

Thank you to our extremely generous somebodies. Aaron Samuel, Andrew Pete. Theodore Betts, the first Esquire, Amanda Valentina Sienna, St. breno and Adam Moore. Thank you for listening. See you next time on Yeah.

Jenna Love 59:34

Please look out for us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Patreon. Our name everywhere is somebody you pod, as in podcast. Our Patreon started just $3 a month, and you can get all of our episodes ad free and a day early, plus bonus episodes behind the scenes action, bloopers and more. Thank you for taking the time to listen to the voices of sex workers. And remember, Somebody You Love might Just be a sex worker.

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