This week we are continuing the discussion about what it’s like being paid to have sex - we’re talking about the little things we like, the things we hate, awkward role plays, and what happens when we give in and do the stuff we’ve made clear we don’t want to do! Jenna explains why she thinks the idea that you can’t orgasm from anal is a misconception, and Holly shares two baffling text message exchanges she had. Finally, prompted by a listener question, we talk about our sex working futures as we get older.
Scarlet Alliance Emergency Relief Fund: https://chuffed.org/project/sex-worker-support
CHAPTERS
3:06 Main Segment: Tantra, roleplays, and boundaries
48:15 Misconception: You can’t orgasm from anal
51:55 Shit People Say: “It is morning, not night”
57:41 Question of the Week: “Do you see yourselves being sex workers into your 50s?”
LINKS
Patreon (from $3AUD/month): http://www.patreon.com/somebodyyoupod
Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/somebodyyoupod
Facebook: http://www,facebook.com/somebodyyoupod
Somebody You Love is sponsored by Assembly Four, empowering sex workers through technology: https://assemblyfour.com/
For more info on sex work in Australia, please check out the following organisations:
ACT (SWOP ACT): https://meridianact.org.au/swop/
NSW (SWOP NSW): https://swop.org.au/
NT (SWOP NT): https://www.ntahc.org.au/swopnt
Qld (Respect Inc): https://respectqld.org.au/
SA (SIN): http://www.sin.org.au/sindex.html
Tas (Scarlet Alliance): https://scarletalliance.org.au/links/
Vic (Vixen Collective): https://www.vixencollective.org/vc
WA (SWEAR):http://sexworkerrightswa.org
WA (Magenta): http://magenta.org.au
Support the show: https://www.patreon.com/somebodyyoupod
TRANSCRIPT:
Jenna Love 0:01
Do you miss the free and affordable ads and social networks without all of the anti sex rhetoric
Holly Harte 0:06
Assembly Four is a team of sex workers and technologists from Melbourne, Australia, aiming to bring back free and fair advertising and social spaces to the sex working community.
Jenna Love 0:15
stepping away from the clunky design of traditional platforms, their two products tryst.link and switter.at are refreshing and well needed changes in both presentation and mission.
Holly Harte 0:27
And both are free to join and open to all.
Jenna Love 0:29
You can find both of our profiles on Tryst and I love how it is so clearly designed by sex workers.
Holly Harte 0:36
Yep, and I love how straightforward and easy it is to use and how much they clearly support the sex working community.
Jenna Love 0:42
And also how responsive they are when it comes to feedback and customer service.
Holly Harte 0:46
Check out their website assemblyfour.com (four the word, not the number) for more info.
Jenna Love 0:56
Welcome to Somebody You Love or the sale of two titties. I'm Jenna Love.
Holly Harte 1:03
And I'm Holly Harte.
Jenna Love 1:05
And we're experts in disappointing our parents, breaching community guidelines, and banging the people who vote against our rights.
Holly Harte 1:14
As always, we'd like to begin the show by acknowledging the lands on which we are recording. Today I am on Ngunnawal land as always, and Jenna is recording on Darug and Gundungurra land
Jenna Love 1:26
Experiences of working in the sex industry very incredibly wildly. And Holly and I are only able to speak from our own experience, of course, please make sure that you don't take what we say as being representative of every experience in the sex industry. And definitely keep in mind that we both have quite a lot of privileges and thus are potentially less exposed to some of the more negative experiences that can come with working in the sex industry. Not that we haven't had our fair share. But it's just worth keeping in mind when we talk about what it's like for us.
Holly Harte 2:02
We're going to surprise you this week by letting you know that we have adult themes. In this episode, we will be talking about sex, I know it's a shock to you. But just a reminder that there are some raunchy topics in this episode.
Jenna Love 2:17
If you're sick of hearing ads in the show, then you might want to consider subscribing to our Patreon, which starts at $3 a month. And for that you get all of our episodes ad-free and 24 hours early. For $6 a month you also get all of our bloopers and behind the scenes footage. We capture video whenever it's just Holly and I recording. And we like to share all of the other crap that we talked about that doesn't make it into the episode with our patrons. And there's usually a fair bit of swearing and messing up and lots of animals featuring. So if you just can't get enough of the pod, then we would love it if you headed to patreon.com/somebody you pod. We have a small trigger warning for you on this episode. We do chat a bit about age play, about consensual non consent, and boundary pushing.
Holly Harte 3:14
You might have noticed that this week is a part two of an episode we had a couple of weeks ago, Somebody You Love is paid to have sex. It was very well received. People were quite interested in the stories that we had to share. And we thought we'd follow on - we didn't manage to pack everything into that episode, we still had a few things we wanted to have a chat about. So we're back again to give you a little bit more on that topic. And probably there'll be many more parts of this because that is a main component of our job, surprisingly.
Jenna Love 3:44
And we keep finding things to say about it.
Holly Harte 3:47
A few weeks ago, we discussed how in our job, sometimes people will request things that we may not necessarily love. But we consent and we will do it as part of our job. And that's fine. Today, we're going to have a quick chat about when people request things that we say we're not really into, we're not that keen on. And they sort of continue to push for it. So it's not as simple sometimes as yes or no, sometimes you'll have a little bit of a chat with a client, and particularly if there's someone you've seen before, they might mention something that they've had in mind. As I said, Sometimes you'll say "fuck yes, let's do that!". And sometimes you'll say, "fuck no". But there is a pretty wide grey area in between where you sort of feel like well, look, I don't really.. you know, you might, for lack of a better word, take some convincing. And that's not really what anyone expects you to do. We don't want to be convinced. But you know, this healthy discourse around sex involves talking about the dynamics involved and what the expectations are. And that can be part of it. There have been circumstances where clients have asked me to do something and I've said, "Look, I'm going to be really clear with you. I don't do that. I'm not into it. I'm not an expert on it", I'll give you all of the qualifiers to know that I'm not an expert. And you can't expect me to be providing service of a high standard if I don't feel confident in that. But I may agree to try it, I'll say, "okay, definitely set the bar low. Be aware that I'm probably gonna make a mess of whatever it is we're doing but like, let's, okay, we'll try, we'll like, if that's what you're certainly want to try, I'll do my best". The thing is, obviously, in our job, we're always going to do our best. And we always try to make it a good experience for us both. But you really can't expect us to create something out of nothing, when we really either aren't that into it, or don't know what we're doing. A few months ago, a client of mine requested Tantra. I couldn't tell you the first thing about Tantra, it's nothing that I've ever had experience with. And I know there are quite a few providers who are specialists at it, they have done Tantra training, they have researched it, they've got a lot of experience experimenting with it. And they advertise it. That is their niche. I don't think I've written Tantra anywhere on my advertising, I've never committed to that, because I don't know anything about it. I suggested to the client that he would be better off seeing one of these specialists, I think I even picked a couple of workers who had listed Tantra and I said, "I would give these people a call or you know, a message and see if they're happy to facilitate that". But I don't think you're going to get what you're looking for with me in regards to Tantra. He insisted. Eventually, I said, "Well, I guess that's your your risk. Okay, fine, let's do it". And he was a disaster. It was not a thing that worked out for us. I think part of it was that neither of us knew what we were doing. I think Tantra is an incredibly intimate thing. And it's very awkward to do it with somebody if it's not sincere, I can't make--I don't want to make it sound like I'm not sincere in the work that I do. But I think like a lot of Tantra stuff, there is a really deep emotional mental connection. And if I'm not feeling that with you, and I have to then stare into your eyes for 10 minutes straight, it's really, really uncomfortable. And that's the truth--
Jenna Love 7:21
I think unless somebody in the situation is a professional, like unless, it either has to be there's a professional who's guiding the session
Holly Harte 7:29
Yes.
Jenna Love 7:29
Or the two people involved do really connect with one another. And both are invested in the same way, which you're not really get--I mean, look, I don't know, there might be people who have no experience who just love it first off.
Holly Harte 7:42
Yeah, there are certain individuals I think it may go really well for me with it. You know, it's just in this scenario, it wasn't happening. And that could be for a multitude of reasons
Jenna Love 7:52
And you had made it clear up front that you didn't think I didn't think it was going to going to go well
Holly Harte 7:57
Exactly, no, I was pretty sure that I wasn't on board. But I ended up going along with it. And you know, I made that very clear that I wasn't confident in my abilities in that regard. Just in general the session sort of lacked sincerity, I suppose, as the way to put it. It all felt very forced and stilted and awkward. And I know the client felt that and I know that I felt that. And we both communicated that afterwards we thought it was a mess. And that's what happens, I guess when you expect someone to do something, or to try something that they've expressed that they don't think they're going to be good at. It's not fun, it's not going to work. It's not that you shouldn't try things. But if someone makes it pretty clear that they don't think it's gonna go well, it may not go well. You can't be surprised, I think.
Jenna Love 8:40
Yeah and there's not, there's not necessarily anything wrong with that, like, we all try things. And then sometimes it's just not how you thought it was gonna be. And that's totally fair. And sometimes you need to try it in order to know. But it's just that thing of kind of, not necessarily pushing someone into something, but when somebody has asserted that they're not really comfortable with something or they don't think they'd be any good at it or like it. It's that concept of enthusiastic consent, isn't it? When somebody hasn't enthusiastically consented to it you kind of can't expect them to then be really enthusiastic. Like, I've had plenty of experiences with clients who have gone "Oh, can we do this?" And I've gone "uhh it's not really for me", and they're like, "please", and then I'm like, "okay," but I'm not going to pretend to enjoy it. And then they get annoyed. And you can tell that they're like, "aren't you enjoying this?" I'm like, "Well, I didn't--I mean, I made it pretty clear that I wasn't going to". So you can do it if that's what you want to do. But I'm not going to stroke your ego. I'm just going to lay here and let it happen, because that's what I've agreed to.
Holly Harte 9:46
Yeah, I'm not saying I'm not interested because I'm being modest. I'm not saying I'm not very good at that because I'm playing coy, because I want you to beg for it. I'm going to be really honest with you about what I like and what I don't like or what is fine. That's I just - I'm not a very good liar in general. And I think in sex, it is important to be honest with your boundaries. And so if I don't think I'm going to do very well, I'm going to be honest. But if you insist, maybe I'll try it. And it might not work. I guess the point of this, this little spiel is that, as part of our jobs, sometimes we will agree to do things that we aren't that keen on. And if we make it clear to you, even though you have the fantasy of Jenna is going to be the one that I explore this with, and it's going to be great. If Jenna or Holly says to you, "I think you should maybe see someone else". That's probably not the worst advice to take.
Jenna Love 10:40
This sort of ties in to me with a lot of the sort of what I would say the darker, murkier sides that I've been able to see since being in the sex industry, which is that there seems to be a fair few people out there who are actually completely comfortable, being engaged in activities, whether sexual or not, with another human being, when the other human being doesn't really want to be there. And I find that quite disturbing. There is this phenomenon. And I think we could probably go into this in another episode. But I imagine a lot of sex workers have experienced it, where you have, we might cut off a client and say, we're not comfortable seeing them anymore or we may refuse service to a client, and that client will go and get a new phone number, a new email address, and contact us pretending to be somebody else, and book in to see us, and then they show up expecting that then we will want to have sex with them. And that is so disturbing to me. I don't--what disturbs me about that is why do they want to be intimate with somebody who has made it very clear that they want nothing to do with them? That is so disturbing. What the fuck is that? And that, like that's the most extreme example of it. But it makes me think about, like people who haggle and and people who push for things that we don't offer, which is - that's quite a common one, the boundary pushing, and sometimes it's only little things, but they push and push and push. And why do you want that? What is wrong with your brain that you want to convince someone to do something? That is just, I just can't think of anything--I don't know. And that's something that, you know, I wouldn't say it's super common, but it does happen. And I find that I sit in my room and think about that. And it disturbs me.
Holly Harte 12:36
Once again, I consented to the things that haven't gone well in those sorts of situations. But you definitely can't blame me if you think it was shit if I said to you, "I don't think I'm going to be very good at this". And if "if you insist" is the basic response I give you to going ahead with it. Well, I'm sorry, but if it's garbage that's on you, pal.
Jenna Love 12:57
Yeah. And I'm not gonna pretend that I'm loving it if I've told you that I probably won't. Okay, I got a little bit dark there. Soz about it.
Holly Harte 13:05
Same
Jenna Love 13:06
Not that we're afraid of dark topics, but it's just not quite what we were going for today. So let's talk about what are some of the little things that you find clients do or that come up in bookings that you really don't like?
Holly Harte 13:21
I'm slightly hesitant to answer this question, because it's one of those really nuanced things. But generally, I really don't like fingering. Now I have to say that with a massive caveat that sometimes clients can make me squirt by fingering me. And I invite that and we work on it. And it's a sort of process that we can experiment with. And that's when I trust them. And I trust them with my body, and to be careful and use finesse in the way that they do it. But a lot of the time as a sex worker that I've experienced fingering, it has been clumsy, pointy, jabby motions.
Jenna Love 14:02
Scratchy
Holly Harte 14:01
Yes, scratchy, yeah. Particularly when people haven't looked after their nails well. It's like somebody grabbing a fork and jabbing it around in your mouth. Like it just feels pokey and unpleasant. There's nothing sensual about being jabbed in the genitals. Bottom line, you might think, "Oh, this is the thrusting--that's the right pace" or the, or whatever you think it is. But sometimes it just feels like you're hurting me. And I'm really forward about that. I will say to my clients very quickly, slower or less--or I am super communicative. So if you have, if you're listening, and you've fingered me, and I haven't told you to stop, you're okay. But I'm very clear. I'm happy to give direction in that regard. And I think there's lots to learn. If you have fingered me and made me squirt everywhere, then I love you. But generally, it's something that I'm not a huge fan of. And I think it's another one of those things where everyone thinks they're good at it, and I'm not simple, but then I have slept with women who like being fingered in such a different way to me. So it's not a really straightforward task either. Like I am someone who responds often best to one finger, two fingers can be too much for me, whereas a lot of the women I sleep with are like, "Can you put three or four? Like get in there"
Jenna Love 14:21
I hate one finger, one is so pokey. I'm like "ow!". It's really stabby, I'm a two girl.
Holly Harte 15:28
Yeah, so there you go. I mean, it's like anything with sex. It's--there's so much variety as to what makes people happy. But generally, yeah, more often than not, I don't enjoy fingering. I also really hate - because rimming is so big these days, it's so trendy and I love my butt being leaked, like woof, fuck yeah. But one thing I hate is these guys trying to do this like porno move where they grab your butt cheeks and they spread them right apart. But they think "I'm getting right in there". Look at that butthole, pornographic style. I get that you want to have a good look at everything. That's fine, but like, it feels like you're ripping my skin open - you don't need to drag my ass cheeks to each side of the bedroom to get in there like that's--please, please.
Jenna Love 16:14
Yes, I know exactly what you're talking about.
Holly Harte 16:17
Sometimes I've even felt the skin like near my tailbone feels like it's been ripped like it feels--it's not, but it's stretched. I don't know. It's horrible.
Jenna Love 16:26
Yeah, 100% they do it with your pussy as well. Like, they just push it so much. And it's like if you did that on your arm, like it's--you're pulling skin apart. And that skin is normally kind of close together, like around your butt crack. I know exactly what you mean around the tailbone it like--I feel like it probably is getting little micro tears, stings. It's like, ouch, what the fuck, I don't get what happens to some people when it comes to sex that they just forget that it's a body. Like, you know what, that's what I'm like, you know what that feels like? You know that skin is sensitive. And that tearing skin is painful, surely you know that--you've been injured in your life. So something I really don't like is I guess multiple things at once. Like I'm a very--I just prefer to focus on one thing at a time. Something that really shits me is when people want to try and stimulate my clitoris while they're having sex with me, either in my vagina or my butt. And I think like it's a real - you see that a lot in porn. I think it's also because so many people believe that, you know, women don't come from from being penetrated. And some don't. That's true. First of all I do. And second of all, I just don't like the whole sens--it's just too much. And especially because so many guys are so rough with the clitoris. And just like yeah, having a dick in me and pawing at my clitoris is just so unpleasant for me. I just really hate it.
Holly Harte 18:05
Is it that you find that they're just too rough with the clit while they're focused on fucking you? Or is it just too much stimulation from every angle?
Jenna Love 18:11
I definitely say that's a part of it, because they're not focusing just on that and that, like there's sex happening. So there's all these big these large scale movements going on. So then they tend to be really kind of rough with the clitoris and often it's like that porno thing where they really like, flicking it, you know, I'm doing hand gestures again, which our listeners can't see
Holly Harte 18:33
So it's sort of like the 69 phenomenon where it's like, focus on one thing and do it well, rather than let's do 12 things at once
Jenna Love 18:39
Exactly, yeah. And I find it particularly with anal like I really enjoy anal sex. I love anal orgasms. We're going to talk about those later. I just I'm like what are you doing other shit for? Like, stop it. Just let me enjoy this. I've got--I just yeah, it's just too much for me. And I know that some people really, really love that. And that's the whole thing with sex. But that's what--it's about communicating. And, you know, I have had some people say, "Oh, do you want me to play with your clit?" And I've been like, "Oh, no, just like, this is great". And that's awesome. That being said, I have had experiences, I'm thinking about a personal partner, actually, that I have done that sort of thing with. And it's been really, really great. Like, there are some things that you--it's like you with the fingering I guess
Holly Harte 18:53
There's always an exception to the rule.
Jenna Love 19:21
Yeah, there's always an exception, and there are times when I might enjoy it, but for the most part, just focus on one thing with me.
Holly Harte 19:33
In terms of the little things that we do like Jenna, what do you have to say on that?
Jenna Love 19:39
One thing that just makes me melt is something that the first person to do it with me was my husband. And since then, obviously, you know, I have sex with a lot of people is when it's a man that I'm with when he like, kind of gives me a shoulder massage while I'm going down on him. It's so random and specific but oh my god, I just love it so much. It's like, first of all, you acknowledge that this is a workout for my shoulder and neck area. And it's just, it just feels really intimate and really loving. And I think something I really like about sex is when it's that fine line between being intimate and caring and gentle, and hard and passionate, like I really love going back and forth between that balance. I don't think that giving somebody oral sex is inherently a submissive act, but you know, especially if I'm sort of down on my knees, I'm in a stereotypically kind of more submissive position, and I'm taking a penis in my mouth, we should have done a disclaimer for my mom, again, this is not an episode.
Holly Harte 20:44
There's a lot of these episodes that are a bit a bit riskier.
Jenna Love 20:48
That's true, anyway, then to have that person who is arguably in the more dominant position sort of caressing me and saying, it's sort of "I appreciate you, I know that this is physical work for you". And I'm supporting you in this and I'm part of this effort. We're doing it together. You know, there's something I just really love about it.
Holly Harte 21:08
That is very cute. I don't think I've gotten the shoulder massage when giving head. I don't know if I'd like it. But I like, you know, maybe when they, like, gently touch my hair then or they like, you know, they hold my hand. Sometimes I reach up and like, yeah, that's cute, but also, I don't give a fuck as well, if they just lean back and enjoy it. Because you know, it's art.
Jenna Love 21:28
Oh same
Holly Harte 21:30
My dick sucking is art, and you should just enjoy it. So that's cool too. Some of the little things that I like is men moaning. That's a massive one for me. A lot of men, I think, have been told or have had some societal view ingrained that men moaning is just, it's not a masculine thing, or it's just not a thing that you do during sex. So when a man moans and gives me that verbal feedback during sex that is really arousing. It's really exciting to feel this primal release of sound indicating pleasure, that is so hot. And particularly if they moan when they come, that pressure release. And to witness somebody having such pleasure is really thrilling and really exciting. It's hard to articulate that. I know a lot of my clients know that I'm very loud. I'm sure that my neighbours all have heard me coming at one time or another. And I know a lot of my clients find that really hot. I have had some clients who've actually said, "Can you not?", which was really weird. I literally can't not. This is the sound that comes out of me because I feel I don't even
Jenna Love 22:39
Stop touching me then.
Holly Harte 22:40
Right? One guy said "stop being so dramatic". I was like, "you have to stop touching me". This is just the noise I make, you jerk.
Jenna Love 22:53
I've had a couple of people say "oh, I don't need all that porn stuff"
Holly Harte 22:56
Yeah! I think they thought I was being performative.
Jenna Love 22:58
And I'm like, "Oh, honey, I'm not doing this for you". Yeah, that's fine. But you're gonna need to stop touching me. Yeah, like, stop making me feel so nice, fuck.
Holly Harte 23:09
Half of the time, I can't even control what's coming out of my mouth. I will be in the midst in the throes of pleasure. And I'll realise that I've just said a bunch of random swear words and other nonsense. And I'm not keeping track of it. Because I'm not consciously saying these words. It's just exclamations coming out in pleasure. Yeah. So you're enjoying yourself. Exactly. And just the same as my clients generally seem to enjoy me showing pleasure. I really like to see them show pleasure.
Jenna Love 23:39
There are a lot of people in the world who don't show pleasure when they're in bed with you. I've had like quite a few clients, mostly men, but I have had one or two women, who just show absolutely no sign. They give no indication of whether they're enjoying themselves or not. There's no moaning, there's no--I mean, I've had clients who have had an orgasm, and I haven't known. They've just stopped and
Holly Harte 24:07
Yeah
Jenna Love 24:08
And then I'm like, "oh, okay", and then I, you know, if it's a guy, then often there's visual evidence, so that's helpful. And then they leave and I'm like, "Oh my god, was that okay?" It seems like the last hour was really boring for them. And then they'll come back - they'll book again and again and again. And I'm like, "Okay, I guess that they must be having somewhat of a nice time?" And it's so--and I feel awful, but I kind of dread those sessions with those people because I've just--I'm getting no feedback. And I understand there's a lot of people who have a lot of shame around sex and all of this stuff, but I'm like I feel like I'm giving so much and you're just giving me nothing.
Holly Harte 24:52
Yeah, the self doubt is crippling, isn't it?
Jenna Love 24:54
The self doubt is crippling! I'm there like riding them, working my arse off, and they're just looking at me like they're not even like--oh, it's so uncomfortable. And yes, people moaning oh so sexy like there's nothing hotter than that. Like, you know, there's those people who are really good at receiving oral?
Holly Harte 25:18
Yeah
Jenna Love 25:19
Like you're going down on them. And they are just like giving you so much to work with. Like it fires you up.
Holly Harte 25:26
Right? I can keep going forever.
Jenna Love 25:28
Yes. But if they're just silent and that, I mean that's okay, if that's what they want to do, that's cool, but I'm not going to--I'm certainly not going to enjoy it that much.
Holly Harte 25:39
I have this Pokemon meme on my phone, which is a very on brand for me. And it says when your jaw is getting tired, but he starts moaning and then the Pokemon's attack is "the song has restored my strength". And that's exactly what it's like. You feel like okay, I'm getting--my jaws getting tired. I might have to stop for a bit soon. And then you're like, oh, wow, okay, they're getting really into it. I'm back in the game.
Jenna Love 26:05
Fuck yeah
Holly Harte 26:07
I love that meme. I've always got it ready. I also really like my hair being played with which I mentioned before in the context of when I'm giving head I don't necessarily mean while I'm giving head you have to be doing plaits in my hair. I mean sometimes a client will reach down and just gently pull it out of the way for me and gently hold it but in an intimate way, not particularly during sex but maybe while we're just cuddling and lying there. If a client runs their fingers through my hair or strokes my hair or something like that, I'm just in heaven. It feels so pleasurable and it's another one of those things it's not particularly part of the penetrative fucking part of sex but the build up and the intimacy that's really nice just gets me--
Jenna Love 26:49
That just gave me butterflies about going back to work as I get to go back to work in a few weeks, and I just got really excited about people yeah
Holly Harte 26:58
Potentially playing with your hair.
Jenna Love 27:00
Yeah, just having nice physical experiences with people. I'm really excited.
Holly Harte 27:05
We have also mentioned before, but a little thing during sex that we both are into is our feet being touched. I know that while Jenna is being fucked she does like her feet carressed. I didn't have someone do that to me until in fact, I think last time that we had sex Jenna, I sucked your toes while you were being--anyway, is that too much information?
Jenna Love 27:23
No I just got excited!
Holly Harte 27:27
So I think the first time I experienced someone touching my feet while they were actually fucking me was only less than a year ago, and we were in the middle of sex. And he started like grabbing my feet, like tickling them and touching them and I was like, "oh my god. Why have I never known about this before?" But it's also a massive reason of why I love doing foot fetish bookings is because wrapping my feet around a cock, having someone kiss my feet, caress them, lick them, touch them whatever, I don't fucking care. Just give me foot action.
Jenna Love 27:58
And hand action too. I love hand, like just holding hands. Touching. Like, I don't know, feet and hands, I just think are super cool. So Holly, do you have any, like, fetishes that you kind of would like to explore one day?
Holly Harte 28:15
There are a few I would that are on my my bucket list. And I want to say this with a quick disclaimer, saying things like this sometimes can be concerning because I don't want people that are not into them to come to me and go "well, we can try that if you like", if that's not what your kink is. Then I feel silly, then we're doing something that you don't really like. And it's just no.
Jenna Love 28:36
It's like the Tantra again
Holly Harte 28:37
It is
Jenna Love 28:38
No one really knows what they're doing and it's a bit pointless
Holly Harte 28:41
Right. When I try one of these sort of really kink, these fetish based things, I want to do them with somebody that that is their kink. Their really specific thing and they've probably done it before, not necessarily, but this is what they've dreamed of for ages. That's what's exciting about doing kink things for me. So the first one I'd really like to do is a looner. You were the one who introduced me to looners, Jenna, would you like to explain that for us?
Jenna Love 29:04
Yeah, I have a looner client. "Loon" as in balloon, there tend to be two broad categories of looners, there are poppers and non-poppers. So poppers are people who get off on the balloon bursting. And non poppers are the ones that do not like that. My looner client, who's a regular client of mine, who's really lovely, is a non-popper which I appreciate because eurgh balloon popping. And we, and this is a great example of that where he is a looner and I'm not. We spend multiple hours together, we spend a lot of our time blowing up the balloons, he orders all these crazy fantastical balloons from overseas, like different shapes and sizes and adult balloons that are designed for sex, and we bounce on them. We insert them, we like, we just do all sorts of things with these balloons. And that is something that like, I would never do that on my own. Like my husband and I are not gonna blow up a bunch of balloons and do that because we would both be like, "what are we doing? This is--what? What's happening?". Like it just, it's not either of our kinks. But because it is my client's kink, it's so much fun because he's having a great time. I'm like woo, like it's a very, it's a very wholesome kink.
Holly Harte 30:16
Sounds so fun. It's so unique. I really like that. I'm not trying to poach looner, I hope there's other looners out. Maybe any Canberra?
Jenna Love 30:25
you guys would get on really well. Like you.
Holly Harte 30:28
I also would really like to try splashing that's been around for a long time. And I have a few friends who've done it, including yourself Chennai, you just mentioned before, on lots of it. Yeah, have a splashing, for those who aren't aware is is usually defined as the act of covering yourself in food and sources and chocolate and whatever. Sometimes sitting in it, people like to get cakes, and you're sort of sitting some cake and things like that. There's a variety of different ways to execute it. But it's basically just getting really fucking messy. Usually with food. Would that be correct? You think? Yeah, food play, I
Jenna Love 30:59
think that's Yeah, and I've done I've done it many, many times, maybe because of the squirting because people know I carry a rubber sheet around with me, like, I'm just already equipped for it. I can't say I'm very into it, though. Okay, again, if somebody else is really into it, I'm like, cool, great, you're loving this. But no matter what products you use, your hair will smell like custard for a week, whether there is cost involved or not, I guarantee you, your hair will smell like custard, but you can't smell so that's that's not a problem. Other people will just think, and it always turns brown. It's really fun at the beginning. And then you're sitting in a pool of brown liquid with lumps. And like, man, it never ends. Well,
Holly Harte 31:41
I think they do. But some people are into doing more intense things than that good on him. I also really would like a latex kink person. It's not my kink. But I think it's a little bit exciting. The problem for me with latex is it tends to be very expensive. To get latex gear on your body, it's a whole process. You have to like powder yourself up and then put it on then you have to lube it to keep it all shiny. It's a whole ordeal. But one day if someone came to me with a whole lot of latex bits and pieces, I don't know, I think that actually could be really arousing, but it's I think it's expensive.
Jenna Love 32:16
I don't mind doing latex play. But more often than not, they seem to want to do it in summer, which is just a problem. And I find it very hot, I do find it a turn on it's not a kink of mine. But I do find it quite sexy. The the veil of sweat that that covers your body when you take it off is just, it's a special It's a special thing. So it's not it's not an everyday kink for me, but I do enjoy it.
Holly Harte 32:43
And and no finishes that you're interested in trying Genet because you've done them all? Is that? Is that the
Jenna Love 32:49
kind of? Yeah, I also think I'm just not very inventive, like people will suggest something to me. And I'm like, all right, Sure, let's do it. But I just don't really think of stuff myself. And yeah, I kind of have done most things. I feel like an old lady. I'm like, now I'm more looking for like intimacy and connection. But I kind of got over exploring random shit out of my system in my 20s. I'm still happy to do it. But I just don't feel the urge for it.
Holly Harte 33:17
It's very fair.
Jenna Love 33:19
I get heaps of requests for roleplay. And I think that's something that we sort of talked about this a bit last time, which was about the thing where people suggest something because they think it's kinky and wild, but don't really know what they want. It's not uncommon for someone to contact me and say, Can we do roleplay? And I go, yeah, I mean, that's an option. Like I literally have a theatre degree. I've had training in improv, like, I can do this, right? And then I'll go, what kind of roleplay Do you want to do? And they go, Oh, I don't I don't know, just whatever you like. And I'm like, well, it's not like, I don't know, you have to have a specific What is it? That is your fantasy? roleplay is acting out of fantasy. So just doing roleplay I mean, maybe for some people that worked, but for me, I just don't really understand what that means. My
Holly Harte 34:05
roleplay is you come over give me a whole lot of money and then go home. Like that's, that's the role. Yeah,
Jenna Love 34:11
I want let's play those roles. Yeah. And I think because even though I have that theatre experience and stuff, and perhaps because of that, it's really important to me to be really fucking authentic and, and honest, and to be myself in life when I'm not on the stage. You know, so for me, roleplay has to be a specific fantasy. Otherwise, I'm just going to be myself because I don't like I just don't that to me, there's no grey area there. It's kind of one or the other in my mind. So often they'll say, Yeah, can we do roleplay and then they don't have a specific one. When I had recently was he responded with teacher student, and I was like, okay, so which 1am I like you have to be more specific. And then he wanted me to be the teacher and I was like, okay, so is it that you're my favourite student and we've got an illicit affair going on, is that you've been naughty, and you need to be punished. Like, what? Like,
Holly Harte 35:06
there's so many different, you know, it's sort of Yeah, and and other parameters,
Jenna Love 35:11
what are the parameters, I need to know the boundaries. And another thing that I've encountered is an economy ties into that, I guess is where they, they won't explain what the roleplay story is up front, but springing it on me in the middle of it, like I have a client who really loves doing roleplay, but he will never ever tell me the details of it. And he'll just give me like the starting point, like the inciting incident, right? And I get like, I'm like, Okay, I'm trained for this, I can handle this, like, this scenario will be, Oh, you've just got home from going to the gym, you know, and you're just really horny, and you just want to get out your action. So you come in the door, and you're like, Oh, hi, hubby. I'm home kind of thing. I'm like, cool. Yeah, no worries. So I do that. And then I start, like cracking onto him. And he starts going, Oh, what are you doing? And I'm like, oh, sorry, I've just a bit honi from being at the gym. And he's like, oh, why are you touching me? And I'm like, oh, because, sorry. It's just that I got sorry. Don't worry about it, you know? And then he's like, no. And I'm like, Well, what? I don't like I'm not like what do so I guess he wants what? I guess he wants some roleplay. That's, that's edging towards non consensual or is a bit coercive, you know, and that's actually something that I'm not super comfortable with. That's, that's something that's going to a whole other level. And you really need to discuss that with somebody beforehand. And I also and I just won't, I won't play into that game as well. And I'm very, I'm like, oh, okay, cool. No worries, do you want to talk? Are you feeling? You know? Are you feeling like you're not able to be sexual at the moment? Or? And I can tell that he's there going? No, come on, convinced me to do I want you to convince me and I'm like you I wasn't given this information. So I'm not. I am not somebody that is prepared. As we talked about earlier, I'm not prepared to convince somebody to have sex with me. Unless that has been very specifically told to me as a part of the roleplay. I'm not into that. I'm not messing around with consent, unless that's what we've decided to do. So I just think if you're going to roleplay, you got to fucking tell, you know, I've had other people want to do roleplay, who have sent me basically scripts, and I know some workers absolutely hate that. Because they're like, What the fuck, I can do my job. You don't want to give me a script? Again, with the theatre stuff. I'm like, fantastic, cool. I can do a character study, I can do background, and I can turn up and deliver the performance of a lifetime. Like I'm ready for that. I love the script. But I know some don't like that, either. That's kind of the other extreme, I guess. A big question is like, Are there role plays that are off limits, my rule is kind of, I kind of feel most things are not off limits, so long as they are far enough away from reality. So I had a client years ago, who loved the school girl fantasy. And I this is a really common one. Some people have an issue with it. Personally, I think a lot of the time, particularly for men, it's them reliving their their high school days, and they're thinking about the fun times they had then all the fun times, they didn't get to have them, but wish that they did. No worries, whatever. I'm happy to do that. So I saw this guy a few times. And he always wanted the school girl thing, no issues. And then I found out that he was a high school principal. And I was like, Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Like, do I need to call the Department of Education? Like it just and I you know, I don't want to kink shame. But it just made me so uncomfortable. And it makes me think about like, if somebody wants to handcuff me and have their way with me or whatever, that kind of fantasy. Sure, no worries. But if you're a police officer, oh, like it's too close. That's my role. I think so long as it's far away. Another one that seems to be quite common. I've had quite a few guys that are you remind me of this woman at work? Can you like pretend to be her and like, have her name and stuff? And I don't like oh, I don't know. It just gets a bit murky for me. I'm like, that's, you know, there's no, no one's being hurt there. But if I found out that somebody was role playing with a sex worker, and pretending they were me, I Oh, it's just all a bit. I don't know. It's just when it's too close to home. That's the limit for me.
Holly Harte 39:31
I generally don't like roleplay at all, because I feel really clumsy at it. I I don't think I'm a bad actor at all, but I think I'm really awkward when we're trying to play out some weird sex fantasy that you have. Okay, where it is not fair. But often they're very ham fisted ideas and very cliched. I guess is more what I'm trying to say and it feels really awkward and I feel awkward doing it. Even if I'm comfortable with the subject matter, I feel clumsy trying to perform what I think you want. So I don't often do them I, some regulars have asked for specific things and we've we've given it a shot. And that's been okay. I don't think I've been the best roleplay experience I could ever have. But that has been not stressful. When I worked in a brothel, I did a few role plays, I did one that was very sexy and exciting. I'm not going to tell you guys because I feel like then, well, I just feel like I feel like people will then ask me to do it with them. And I don't think it was good because of what the roleplay was, I think it was just the individual that was doing the roleplay with me was very, he had a whole plan for how it went. And he really drove the whole thing. And that was really pleasurable. And he was very sensual and sexy, because he knew what he wants to do exactly what he wanted. He'd done it before he knew how it would go the role I had to play, and I just fell into the role and it was beautiful. It was art. I wish I had a DVD copy of it could watch it again and again. DVD is What year is it? So, but we did have one guy that used to come in getting a little bit dark now one gentleman who used to come in who would who would ask us to be under age, that was a really controversial thing. There was a lot of discussion in the girls room over whether it was ethical for us to do what we were doing. There were justifications of, well, maybe it's you know, it's it's that rule or sorry if I know this is a bit darker this episode. But it's that that rhetoric, the people say, Well, at least they're not doing it to actual You know, there are a lot of people out there that do age play, and it's consensual, and it's all understood the dynamic of it. But in this instance, a lot of these workers, we didn't have much education in the way of what age play involved and the dynamics around it. And just in general, we didn't feel wonderful doing it. I did it. I was one of the few workers who who did consent, there was only a couple of us who would see him. He paid a substantial amount to do it, which was a big factor in US decided to go ahead. I don't feel that any of us were traumatised by agreeing to it. But I remember feeling like every hour was was a long hour. I really felt it was extremely mentally draining and quite unpleasant. And I don't think I would do it again. So yeah, that like I said, that is it. I
Jenna Love 42:27
mean, I think like as you said, age plays a specific thing. Yeah. And there's a lot of people who specialise in that. I don't think wandering off the street into a brothel. Yeah. is real like it is it is absolutely one of the kinks that is more at an extreme end. And there are a lot of people are not going to be comfortable with. And you I think you really need to be seeking out somebody who who specialises or at least advertises that that's something that they're comfortable with.
Holly Harte 42:54
I agree it was it was pretty heavy duty in the way of things and I, as I said, I'm not one to jump into doing role plays anyway. But I doubt that that would ever be a dynamic I would do again, not for me.
Jenna Love 43:09
COVID-19 has had a significant impact on the sex industry. And snap lock downs and travel restrictions mean that there are times when sex workers require emergency financial relief in order for them and their dependents to stay safe housed and fed.
Holly Harte 43:24
sex workers don't get sick or holiday pay, and many have no savings to fall back on. The stigma and discrimination that we face means that some have no proof of earnings to access government support. And of course, migrant workers are often forgotten Scarlet Alliance
Jenna Love 43:37
and their state and territory member organisations joined together to create an ongoing fund that is hosted on the website chuffed that ch u FFED.
Holly Harte 43:47
donations are tax deductible 100% of funds raised go directly to sex workers in need. And most weeks the amount of people apply outweigh the amount of funds raised and sadly people have to be turned away. The link to this fund is in our show notes.
Holly Harte 44:07
misconception of the week is you can't orgasm from Angel. This is something I am not able to speak on at all as I am an angel virgin. See my little Halo, but
Jenna Love 44:20
waiting for marriage?
Holly Harte 44:22
Yeah, with how about have we said that on the podcast that Yeah, I'm waiting for some okay. Yeah, I'm waiting for someone to marry me before I go through the process of stretching my anus. So Jenna, would you like to talk to us about your experiences with orgasming from anal sex? Yeah, well, first of all,
Jenna Love 44:40
it is a thing that I have done. So it certainly can happen. I think it's it's very important that we're all aware that orgasming just from a no penetration is probably on the rare side. I wouldn't be expecting people to be able to do that. Certainly not but the way I discovered it wasn't a brothel actually a few years ago, and I had this regular client actually, the girls at the brothel used to joke that he was my boyfriend. Because a few times he he'd come back in the same day. So he obviously quite enjoyed my company. And I really enjoyed his two. And this is graphic, but he just had the right deck for anal. It was just a really, it was just the right deck final. It wasn't too big, was very smooth. It was it was just it just worked. And you know, that's the thing with sex, like different bodies work well together to end his in my body, we just sexually it just worked. And he had said to me, have you ever come from anal? And at that point, I hadn't had a huge amount of anal sex in my life. And I was like, no, what a fucking idiot. Obviously, I'm not gonna come from a level Why? What do you think anatomy is, you know, and then that day, and I get it has to be a psychological component to it because that that was then in my mind, and he had me in the prone position where I was on my stomach. It's like doggy but flat. And this was in a massage parlours. So the bed that we're on was like a massage table. So it's quite firm. And it had a covering that was like a towel, let kind of fabric so what I'm getting at is that there was some friction on my front. And so we were having sex, and yeah, the front part of me was sort of rubbing against that, that towel fabric. And I had an orgasm, and I was like, Oh, well, fuck. Okay, um, I guess I which bloody would have given him the head, you know, the biggest bloody ego, being like she said, She's never had one. And then she just did. And I thought to myself, it's probably because there was some stimulation going on at the front, right? I thought that's really more what it is. Plus, I really like we had great sex together. I just really, you know, I was having a really nice time. And there was that stuff going on at the front. But then since then, after that point, I continued being able to orgasm from anal, and I can't explain it. I can't tell you why that happens. Just like I can't explain squirting. Just like I can't explain the fact that if you touch my genitals for a good 30 seconds, I'm probably going to have an orgasm. I can't explain that. But the orgasms that I have from anal are so nice. There's so deep and warm and comforting. Aren't they just lovely. And I really enjoy it. So I'm just here to tell you that it is a thing that can happen. It can happen in men and women and people who are neither men nor women. And or both. It's definitely a thing, but I just I wouldn't go I wouldn't go in expecting it. Holly has had some people say some shit to her. So it's over to her for shit. People say
Holly Harte 47:54
these messages come from the depths of March 2020. I was going through every six months or so I go through my work phone and clear out a whole lot of garbage. And these were just nestled in there, which means I saved them because they made me either angry or amused. So let's let's begin. The first message I received said it was received at 3am that's always a good start. It's a good job. And it said free. And I said minutes and they said please send your address thanks. And I said nope. And they said What do you mean? I said in future you're doesn't understand
Jenna Love 48:35
know also a really good also a good good foot to start on. Definitely show somebody you want to have sex with that you don't know what no means? Definitely.
Holly Harte 48:46
Is it in future you need to begin your inquiry. Hi, Holly. I was wondering if you might be available for a booking when bla bla bla gave him those sorts of instructions. He said Okay, dear. I said Good night. He said sorry. This is morning. Not tonight. I want to see you I want to see you dear. Fuck you. And now these were all individual messages. Sorry. Next message. This is morning. Next message not night. I want to see you dear. Fuck you. So that looks KIDDING ME hot and heavy, straight off the
Jenna Love 49:24
bat correcting you time of day.
Holly Harte 49:29
You idiot hookah. Oh, Tom. So he contacted me again in October. He said hello. I said what? He said available? I said learn some goddamn manners. He wrote back no girlfriend. No manners d i don't know how to talk. I don't I don't know what that means. Maybe saying
Jenna Love 49:52
I don't speak great English.
Holly Harte 49:55
Maybe no girlfriend. No minister. I don't know.
Jenna Love 49:59
I don't know how to talk sure I could but I
Holly Harte 50:03
mean either way I mean it's very clear that this person secondly the English was their second language and that's totally cool like I like third or fourth house you know people some people like to have you know multilingual that's fine but yeah the things of yeah correcting me that this is morning not night and then the fuck you all these things do Bode very well followed up by no girlfriend no manners Do you I'm not sure what he was trying to say to me but I didn't think I was gonna jump up and squeeze some time and squeeze him in for a booking. So no, that was the that was the end of that romance. The second person I heard from was in September last year. He said Hi, it's x. Can you please call me back for a booking for an app call? Thanks heaps. And I said hi sorry, who is x? It sounded like he thought I knew him like it was very the introduction felt like we'd spoken he said I've had a few calls and wanted to book a girl it's x I talked to you girls every day for hours and I said what? I have no idea who you are. And he said all good sorry. I said what girls do you talk to everyday for hours? Not me. He said wrong girls. I would love to meet for an hour we haven't met before not properly anyway. What Oh, maybe I guess Hi I'm x you can ask me anything Cheers. I said Where do you talk to girls every day? What do you what do you think? He said just other working ladies? And I said okay, so we haven't talked before he said no I don't think so. But I'd love to chat to get to know you. I'd love to book in to get naked and watch me wake my cock and maybe fuck your leg. But condoms don't fit so what do you think I'd like to come over right now please? And I said well No. Oh wow. Wow Wow. Hold on.
Jenna Love 51:56
There's a lot to unpack there. A continuous Yeah, just one generally use a condom to fuck a leg. Yeah, no. I would have thought that it's fairly standard practice to fucker like condom less. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I
Holly Harte 52:09
have quite a few clients who will have you know, sort of, what do you call it? Like leg humpy sort of hand jobs? No, yes. That's how that works. Yeah, yeah. My legs not gonna get pregnant. So or an STI. or so? Yeah, yeah, I'm not concerned. He said Okay, cool. There's lots of things I want to fuck in front of you. Okay, okay. Lots of naughty sacred things I'd like to ask you and tell you what I've done. I'll be happy if you came here how much for 12 hours an hour you know i mean if I wasn't already assuming that he was full of shit that was that was that was the the conversation went on with a few more stupid messages and obviously checked out but I was fascinated on on which ladies He always talks to that somehow he thought I'd be one of them. I was very curious. I
Jenna Love 52:58
assume he's having these bullshit conversations with a whole bunch of dealers.
Holly Harte 53:02
Yeah, right. Well, he never contacted me. And the way that he just assumed I know who he was like, hey, it's x. I'm sorry. Do Do we know each other? I guess not.
Jenna Love 53:13
I mean, he probably is a known pest and he probably is a known pest.
Holly Harte 53:17
He's like Hi, it's that guy that says he wants to know a lot of things like this. Check it in. Haven't you heard of me holy? My initiation God.
Jenna Love 53:34
Alrighty, question for the week is do you see yourselves being sex workers into your 50s not trying to be ageist just wondering if these thoughts go through your minds?
Holly Harte 53:45
Oh, fuck yeah, these questions go through our minds. I don't think there is anyone who enters the sex industry, who doesn't consider how long they'll do it for or what their quote unquote expiry date is, or have preconceived notions of how long you should last in the industry. What has become apparent to me during my time in the industry is there is no expiry date. That's not to say that there is not privilege with youth. I believe there is obviously going to be demand skewed towards younger workers. But I also think, and my understanding is having spoken to a range of workers of different ages, that there is a market for everyone. The market may be a little bit smaller as you get older, but the industry changes and the people that may be seeking your services also come from different demographics. So I am incredibly passionate about what I want to do. I'm always the first person to tell everyone I want to be a granny hookah. I think that being an elderly lady who does sex work is going to be really fun, I might be wrong. Obviously it's going to be all about my health and the physical limitations that I have at the time. But I really like the idea of doing this well into my older ages and Seeing how far I can take it, because it's such a cliche that it's not just about the money. Of course, it's significant amount of what I do is for an income, of course, but I think that exploring sexuality with a range of individuals is something that I want to do for the rest of my life, and particularly making it accessible for people who might not otherwise get to explore that is part of that. What's your thoughts? Jenna?
Jenna Love 55:23
Yeah, I do see that I don't necessarily plan for that I'm a real, I'm not much of a like future person. Like, I'm very much just like, well, if what I'm doing now is enjoyable, I'll keep doing it until it isn't enjoyable, or it isn't practical. You know, I said that when my husband I got married, like, I don't think that will necessarily be together for the rest of our lives. I'd love that, that would be really nice. And if it keeps going the way that it is, then fuckin awesome, because it's brilliant, what we have, but I also I'm like, but in 10 years time, if I feel differently, then I feel differently. And I'm not going to cling on, you know, I just don't think it's super useful for my personality anyway, to cling on to a specific idea that I said that I wanted 10 years ago. So you know, if, if, in a few years time I don't want to be a sex worker any more than I won't. But that being said, at the moment, I really love it. It's the best job I've ever worked. And it is definitely something that I've devoted a lot of my life to, you know, I spent a lot of my time not just working as a sex worker, but on sex work activism. And as a result, I think, yeah, I definitely can see myself doing that. I think that's quite a possibility. I
Holly Harte 56:36
have a documentary, which we can probably link in the show notes. I think it's there's a copy of it on YouTube, which is about a group of sex workers in England, who I think are in the 60s 70s and 80s. And it's really fascinating watching this story. So yeah.
Jenna Love 56:52
Oh, that's cool. I don't think I've seen that.
Holly Harte 56:57
We would like to thank our fantastic, amazing, kind, thoughtful and really intelligent patrons this week. Our new generous somebody this week is Martin. Our new very generous somebody is Ben.
Jenna Love 57:10
I think you forgot to talk about how incredibly attractive our patrons are so sexy to very simply left that off. Yeah. are even more generous somebodies. Timmy Andrew, Adam Smith, Leo Laughlin, sub London, Miss Bailey, Nora Knightley. Leslie Scott Watson, Andrew. Big m, our secret admirer, Maggie, Margaret weezy, john T. Celeste and Ellen are extremely
Holly Harte 57:39
generous somebodies are Aaron Samuel Andrew Pete. Theodore Betts, the first Esquire, Amanda Valentina Sienna, St. brento and Adam Moore.
Jenna Love 57:53
Thank you so much for listening right to the end. If you're hearing this, you're a legend. Thank you.
Holly Harte 57:58
Agree. You make me horny. Please
Jenna Love 58:05
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