Being paid for sex. How does that really work? This week we talk about the pressure to perform and to have orgasms, giving vs receiving, sex & oral logistics, consent, and kinks. Our misconception of the week is that men can’t find the clitoris and in Shit People Say Jenna learns that she is a human gumball machine.
Scarlet Alliance Emergency Relief Fund: https://chuffed.org/project/sex-worker-support
3:00 Main Segment: Let’s talk about sex, baby
53:17 Misconception: Men can’t find the clitoris
57:09 Shit People Say: “put a dolla in get a dolla out is what they say”
Patreon (from $3AUD/month): http://www.patreon.com/somebodyyoupod
Somebody You Love is sponsored by Assembly Four, empowering sex workers through technology: https://assemblyfour.com/
For more info on sex work in Australia, please check out the following organisations:
ACT (SWOP ACT): https://meridianact.org.au/swop/
NSW (SWOP NSW): https://swop.org.au/
NT (SWOP NT): https://www.ntahc.org.au/swopnt
Qld (Respect Inc): https://respectqld.org.au/
SA (SIN): http://www.sin.org.au/sindex.html
Tas (Scarlet Alliance): https://scarletalliance.org.au/links/
Vic (Vixen Collective): https://www.vixencollective.org/vc
WA (Magenta): http://magenta.org.au
Support the show: https://www.patreon.com/somebodyyoupod
Jenna Love 0:02
COVID-19 has had a significant impact on the sex industry. And snap lockdowns and travel restrictions mean that there are times when sex workers require emergency financial relief in order for them and their dependents to stay safe housed and fed.
Holly Harte 0:16
Sex workers don't get sick or holiday pay and many have no savings to fall back on. The stigma and discrimination that we face means that some have no proof of earnings to access government support. And of course, migrant workers are often forgotten
Jenna Love 0:28
Scarlet Alliance and their state and territory member organisations joined together to create an ongoing fund that is hosted on the website chuffed that's c-h-u-f-f-e-d.
Holly Harte 0:39
donations are tax deductible, 100% of funds raised go directly to sex workers in need. And most weeks the amount of people applying outweigh the amount of funds raised and sadly people have to be turned away. The link to this fund is in our show notes.
Jenna Love 0:56
Welcome to Somebody You Love or, the sale of two titties. I'm Jenna Love.
Holly Harte 1:03
And I'm Holly Harte.
Jenna Love 1:05
And we're experts in disappointing our parents breaching community guidelines and banging the people who vote against our rights.
Holly Harte 1:14
Today we'd like to acknowledge that we are recording on land that was stolen, Jenna is on Darug and Gundungurra land and I am on the land of the Ngunnawal people.
Jenna Love 1:24
As usual with this show, we are not able to speak on behalf of all hookers and nor would we want to. But it's particularly true in this episode, because we're talking about sex, what we like, what we don't like. And as we all know, every body is different. And every mind is different. And I mean, I think that's one of the things that makes sex so awesome. But we just, as usual, cannot speak for everyone.
Holly Harte 1:49
We always give a warning about adult themes with this show. But this one, as Jenna said, is all about sex. We're talking about positions, specific acts, orgasms the whole lot. So if you're under age, or you are someone who is uncomfortable with chatter around sex, this is not for you. And probably in general, the whole show is not for you. As a special warning just for Jenna's Mum, you should definitely skip this one.
Jenna Love 2:14
If you've been enjoying the podcast, we would love it if you could take a few seconds to rate and review the show on Apple podcasts. Preferably a five star rating and a really nice review. But we're not going to tell you what to do with your life. We think that the message we are sharing is one that needs to be shared. And by leaving us a review and sharing our stuff on social media, you'll be really helping us to reach a wider audience. If you are concerned about your name showing up on a review of a sex podcast, a sexcast, you can actually change your nickname, but it has to be done on your computer because Apple just likes to make things difficult. We have posted on our social media how to do it, though. So let us know if you need a hand. Thanks.
Holly Harte 3:02
So Jenna, let's talk about sex, baby. On the topic of sex, let's talk about how much do we enjoy the sex we have at work and how much pressure do we feel there is to perform as opposed to in our personal life? I guess?
Jenna Love 3:15
Yeah, look, I think this is one that a lot of people ask us questions around this. And they want to know, if we are actually enjoying the sex that we have at work. Clients want to know that because understandably, it's important that the person you're with isn't having a bad time, of course, but it's a tricky one. Because at the end of the day, it is work. And I mean, there will be sex workers out there who never enjoy a second of their job. And that's that's a valid experience. But I mean, I know I think you and I are similar, like there are times when I have such wonderful sex at work, and sometimes in ways that I think is really awesome, because I wouldn't get to experience them otherwise, because I will meet people who I think 'I would never date you. We're not compatible. We're not in the same circles. We're not at the same stages in life, we're not, for whatever reason we're not compatible in a relationship sense'. And even if I went out to a bar and hooked up, if that was ever a thing that I would do,
Holly Harte 4:13
You in a bar (laughing)
Jenna Love 4:14
I know, but I just I would probably never, the two of us would probably never come into contact in a sexual way if it wasn't for my job. And yet, we have like, OOF sexual chemistry. You know, I just think fuck, we are sexually compatible and maybe not compatible in in any other way really. But I think that's really cool because I wouldn't have gotten to experience that if it wasn't for my job. At the same time, there are plenty of times where I have to, or I feel that I need to pretend to be enjoying myself when I'm not necessarily and I think that's something that civilians really struggle with. That's where it starts getting really murky for them. But I think, I don't know, like I don't know if other people have this experience but, before I became a sex worker, there were also plenty of times in the bedroom where I wasn't having a mind blowing time. And I was just like, well, we're here now we might as well finish it up or...
Holly Harte 5:11
Jenna Love 5:12
Yeah, well, I mean, that's just, you've kind of got to be, you got to be practical about it. And sex is just it's not always this perfect, beautiful thing that that goes smoothly. And we, perhaps we get to know that more than others. But yeah, I mean, so yes, the answer is sometimes I enjoy it immensely. Sometimes I enjoy it a bit. I also find it kind of can kickstart my libido. Like, I'm currently in week 10 or 11. I don't know or up to, of lockdown. And like, my sex drive has disappeared. Because I'm not working.Like I mean, if I wasn't a sex worker, I'd obviously find other ways to make that happen. But for me, it's a real, like, it's a, what's the word I'm looking for, like a jumpstart? When I'm working I'm like, oh, yeah, like, I just I have- I don't have to have sex, but there's an expectation that I will be having sex. And so I do, and then I'm like, oh, yeah! Sex is so awesome. Like, I almost forgot. So for me, it has a benefit on my personal life. Plus, sometimes clients will suggest we try something and I'm like, oh my god, I need to go home and and show my husband that or, you know, like, it can really enrich the sex in my personal life as well. What about you?
Holly Harte 6:26
Yeah, gosh, I've got a few things to say that popped up while you were having a chat then. Just to answer the question to start with, yeah, it's a complex thing. I have had a lot of sex before I became a sex worker. And since, and, like anything, sometimes it's great. And sometimes it's not so great. I would say often, I enjoy it. I am someone who is very fortunate enough to cum a lot. I know there's a large proportion of women who never come who've never had an orgasm, and who, or who find it very difficult to cum. So for me, sex is very often rewarding. If I can get off once, twice, three times. Great. But there's more to sex than an orgasm, which is something I'm sure we're going to discuss today. And I find the whole experience really good. So even if maybe someone I can't cum in one way with one person, there are other elements of it that I find really enjoyable. And overall, the experience can be really nice. And like you said, some of the most mind blowing sex I've had was with guys that I wouldn't have talked to- that sounds really stuck up, but guys that I wouldn't have ordinarily dated or met up with in my civilian life, so... and they just blew my mind. And I was like, god, you make me so horny. So that's really cool. I have heard a lot of workers say that they don't orgasm at work, or they won't orgasm. That was something I heard a lot when I was particularly in a brothel that they refuse to cum with a client or something, they like to delineate...
Jenna Love 7:57
Yes, I heard that particularly in brothels as well. Interesting.
Holly Harte 8:00
Yeah. And I was like, why not? I get it, everyone has their own needs for boundaries and what satisfies them in this work scenario, because sex work is a very unique space. But for me, I'm like, if I can take advantage of that, it's great. I love to have an orgasm. And I do, often. In terms of pressure to perform, I don't really feel it. I have heard people say in this industry that because we're getting paid. Often workers feel more able to tell clients that that doesn't work for them. And to do this instead or to guide clients and educate them a little bit more, I would tend to think probably not because of you being booked for something, you almost I suppose feel like you have to indulge someone's ego a little bit. It's not something I feel a lot of pressure often because I already am feeling pleasure. So I'm not feeling like I have to pretend to have pleasure, if that makes sense. So yeah, because we are booked by the client, I suppose you do want to stroke their ego a little bit. But generally, that's not something I feel a lot of pressure to do. Fortunately for me.
Jenna Love 9:05
Yeah, I think there's this um, I have heard it said about sex workers, but but also about women in general. That and of course, now is probably a good time to add a disclaimer that we are talking mostly about heterosexual sex in this episode. But yeah, I've heard this idea that, that it's our responsibility to educate men, in a sense, for the sake of other women and that we have responsibility to, for example, not fake an orgasm or fake pleasure, just because we think that that's what we're supposed to do. And that, you know, that it's our duty to sort of step up and say, 'actually, that's painful', or 'that is maybe not something that everyone's going to like and maybe very few people would like that' and that sort of thing. And I think that's, it gets really murky for me because, you know, I don't advertise myself as a sex educator. There are people who do and that's a different situation. We talked to Charlie last week who's quite comfortable with that sort of thing and will take on that role, and there are sex workers who will. But I think to sort of put that responsibility on any sex worker or on any woman, indeed, isn't it, I think it's a bit problematic. I think it's a bit icky. Because I don't like holding someone accountable for the way someone they're with then goes on to treat other people. And I just think we're not always in situations where we feel safe to assert ourselves, as I said, as a sex worker or not. And there are occasions where if you, if you're not enjoying it, and you pretend to enjoy it, it's likely to finish sooner. And I know that's a really yucky thing to think about. But I know that as a woman, I've had that thought, and yeah, I know, it's yucky. That's all I can say. But
Holly Harte 10:49
It's not a common, it's not a frequent thing that you and I experience, is it?
Jenna Love 10:53
No, it isn't. No, no.
Holly Harte 10:54
But we have definitely felt that situation.
Jenna Love 10:56
Yeah, definitely. And I think that if that's your way of getting through that, and you think that's that's the way that's going to get you through that the best and with the least amount of trauma, and you know that you're going to come out the other side, still feeling good about yourself, then that's what you should do.
Holly Harte 11:11
The thing, I think, just follow- to wrap up that question is, in my personal life, when I have sex, it's very different to the sex I have at work. So- and that's sort of what you touched on just before is, you know, in my personal life, I have had very, I think I've had civilian sex twice in the past 10 years or something. So I've had very little but before that there was a lot. It's very much quickies. It's hard and fast, smash it out and done. It's very hot and heavy and passionate and dirty and done. Whereas in my work life, it's can be very long and sensual and passionate, and a lot more foreplay. And that's really nice. And like you said, I get to explore some things I may not have. So in terms of you know, do we enjoy the sex we have at work? Fuck yes. Otherwise, I wouldn't do it for a job.
Jenna Love 12:00
Yeah. And I mean, that's it, there are things that we do at work that we either may not do necessarily in our personal lives, or that we just we don't really enjoy, but we are happy to do it as a part of a service. Right?
Holly Harte 12:14
Yeah, exactly. Like, controversial statement here. This can be a polarising one. But I hate 69. And there are going to be people listening who go.' But we did a 69!'. And look, it's, it's not that I hate it to the point of not wanting to do it, it's fine. I just find it the least effective way of reaching any sort of goal. It's fun enough, it's a little bit of entertainment. But it's always better in theory, you know, your genitals don't quite reach each other's faces and you're distracted. One person's here and one's there. And it's, in my personal life. If someone asked if that's what I wanted, I'd probably say ehhh no. But while I'm at work in a booking, if that's something that you want to try, no worries, it's not something that I don't consent to. It's not traumatic in any way for me, but it's just not going to be the highlight of the session for me. So
Jenna Love 13:02
Yeah, I'm going to go out on a limb. And I'm going to say it and I'm happy to be proven wrong. But I do not think that the majority of people who have a vagina, enjoy 69 I think that would be fair. I honestly, I don't I think and, I know, almost every sex worker I've ever spoken to, has said 'Oh yeah, no, fuck, I hate 69' it's just, it sucks it's a shit position. But I have to say, I always thought that until I was with a client who is a woman, and we tried, she was like, 'Do you wanna do 69?' I was like, 'Ah fuck. You too? And then I don't think she'd ever tried it before. I could be wrong. If she's listening. She can tell me if I'm wrong. But I was like, 'Yeah, cool, whatever'. And it was fucking awesome. It was so good. And I've only got one sample size there but my theory is that maybe it's because we've got the same bits and we were able to really rock together. Unfortunately people listening can't see the the hand signals I'm giving Holly at the moment. But yeah, we our bodies really like clicked in and we were able to rock back and forth and get into a really good rhythm and it just Oh, it worked. It was phenomenal. But when there's like a dick and a pussy on either end and it, like, they just don't really work. I just yeah, I hate it. I mean, as you said, I don't hate it, it doesn't traumatise me. But I have no interest in it. But as a part of a booking and same as you I'm going 'Oh god, I've got clients listening to this who're like 'but, but we did it, did you hate it?' And it's like, well, no, I mean, I didn't sit there and hate it, but I was like, well this is not achieving anything. I don't, I'm not getting anything out of this
Holly Harte 14:40
This is for you
Jenna Love 14:40
Yeah, yeah. Which is fine. But that's, it is what it is.
Holly Harte 14:44
I also don't love being on top, part of it's because I'm lazy as fuck but also because I find I just don't feel as much pleasure when I'm on top. It doesn't hit the spots for me. And the physical exertion means that I'm focusing on that instead of focusing on the sensation of the cock in me. So that's that, I'm very much into, you know, doggy. mish, any of those- spooning gimme any other position. But you know, once again, that's something I'll happily do at work. If you want me to jump on and manage the five seconds of riding on top that I can do, I'll do it for you. Because I'm here for the party. It's, you know, I want you to be happy as well. Yeah, don't love it. But that's fine. What about you, Jen?
Jenna Love 15:23
Yeah in a similar vein, I quite like riding on top, although, same as you, I can only do it for a certain length of time. Like, I'm not a skinny fit bitch. So like, you know, there's, there's limits to what I can do. But I quite enjoy it. It feels nice for me. But interestingly, what I don't really enjoy is facesitting, which is, you know, when the other person lays down, and I basically straddle their face, so I'm on my knees. So it's a similar position to the traditional kind of cow girl
Holly Harte 15:53
I love that!
Jenna Love 15:53
Holly Harte 15:54
Jenna Love 15:54
I find it really difficult to orgasm in that position. And for me, I feel a huge amount of pressure. Because when somebody has booked me, and they want me to be on top of their face, it's because they want me to drown them. And so I feel a lot of pressure to orgasm. And it's very, very difficult for me to come in that position. I do cum, well it's not very, very, fuck, it's never very, very difficult for me to cum. So I do, but it's not an enjoyable orgasm. It's just it's very functional, which is, that's fine. And again, same thing, I'm happy to do it if that is what somebody wants to do. But yeah, it's not my choice. I never ever, ever do it in my personal life, ever. I have no interest in doing that. I think the other thing for me is DP. And I know that you don't do this because your little butthole is a virgin. But it's not uncommon for clients to want to use a toy on me and their dick, so that we're getting double penetration with a dick and a toy. And I just prefer one at a time. I just, it's just too much for me having both of them going on. And I think people like, I don't know, I just get the sense clients are doing it because they think I'll enjoy it. And they may not be, if they're enjoying it, and they love that visual and that like, then awesome! Totally happy to do it. But when they sort of present it as 'Oh my god, you're gonna love this, aren't you?' I'm like, 'Oh, well, if, I mean, I can really take it or leave it'. And it's awkward in a booking situation to say that, because obviously I want to be enthusiastic and really support what they want to do. But I'm like, 'Oh, but if you're doing it for me, then don't worry about it. We'll just fuck!' We just have, we just have a dick and not have the toy as well.
Holly Harte 15:57
So in terms of what we do enjoy, how do you feel about going down on your clients?
Jenna Love 17:14
Yeah, look, I mean, I really enjoy that. And I think that in general, a lot of sex workers are people pleasers and people who like to give pleasure and as such, might be more comfortable giving than receiving. And I think that you know, a misconception that kind of feeds into that, before I entered the industry, I thought that it would all be about me being a service provider, me giving, and not a lot of receiving. And I think that is what civilians think the job is like a lot of time. The way they talk about us as though our you know, our bodies just get used for pleasure and all this sort of shit. And so I kind of expected that. And the opposite was really true. You know, our clients really want to give us pleasure. And I mean, a lot of the clients I've come across can be quite uncomfortable or not used to receiving pleasure, and it can be quite confronting for them. So that's a really roundabout way of answering the question, but I really do enjoy giving oral to other people. It varies. There are some people's genitals that could smell better. Or when I find when the hair, like I've got no issue people having genital hair, obviously, genital hair? Pubic hair. But when it's like, when it gets in the way, if they have a penis, for example, and the hair is longer than the penis, it's just like, it's just a logistical issue. So yeah, look, there are times when I'm like, meh, I could take or leave sucking on this. But for the most part, I mean, I love giving head, nothing makes me wetter than giving head, frankly. And I think that that's something that a lot of sex workers would probably say. And we get dismissed because people are like, 'Oh, you just have to say that'. And it's like, no, I think that a lot of us are people who want to give and want to give pleasure. That being said, of course, there's plenty of sex workers who don't have that desire. They just want to earn an income. And that's cool, too. But I think for a lot of us, we're really into it.
Holly Harte 19:35
Yeah, I've definitely always been a cocksucker. In my youth, I was very well known for being the cock sucking girl. That was a thing for me. I've always had an oral fixation, whether it's cigarettes or cock or food, I just want to put things in my mouth. And I also love going down on women. That's something I can spend a lot of time doing. So count me in. I love sucking cock. I love going down on people. I'm up for it.
Jenna Love 20:01
One thing I find funny is that there's this kind of expectation when we're talking about penises, that a larger one is going to be more difficult to fellate than a smaller one. And that is the case sometimes. But I was talking to Holly about this the other day. And I was like, I don't know if I'm alone in this. And Holly was like, 'No, no, you're not alone'. Which was that, because it uses a very different set of muscles when you are sucking on a narrower cock, to when you're sucking on a wider cock. And because when it's on the smaller side, like a slimmer cock, you really have to like kind of purse your lips together. And I find those muscles get sore more quickly than the muscles that I use to suck a bigger cock. God this is so graphic!
Holly Harte 20:47
I'm loving the hand movements you're doing there.
Jenna Love 20:49
Oh yeah! Fully acting it out. But yeah, so I just think some people, I think it's interesting. And some people would be surprised to learn that sometimes sucking a smaller cock is more arduous and is more taxing on my muscles than sucking a bigger one.
Holly Harte 21:06
Yeah, another logistical issue with cocks is the deep throating issue for me. So, I find because of the way that most cocks, and once again, there's so many types of cocks out there, but a lot of cocks tend to bend upwards or backwards towards
Jenna Love 21:25
When they're erect
Holly Harte 21:26
When they're erect. Sorry, yeah, towards a person's belly basically. So when you're trying to deep throat that it's tipping up towards the back of your throat, upwards towards sort of your nose, I guess. So in order to give the best deep throat the best position to do so is upside down, for example, laying on the edge of the bed with your head hanging backwards over it and being fucked in the throat that way. So it actually tips back down the back of your throat, which is not the most comfortable position. But hey, it's doable. It's just a strange body logistic and yeah, it's part of sucking cock, I guess.
Jenna Love 22:01
Yeah, I reckon one of the most common mistakes I guess people make with sex is not adapting to the bodies that are there. And that's the thing I've had so many guys want me to be on my knees and look, I'm a little fucking slut, like I love being on my knees and sucking cock. My god, I hope my mother has taken your warning and is not listening to this episode. Um, I love it. But when I get down there, and you've got an upward bending cock that's poking up towards your navel, I can't get that in my I can get it in the front area of my mouth, but I can't get it down my throat. It's like it's just not gonna work. And so then often with guys like that, if it's quite a severe upward angle, I will get them to lie down and I'll kind of climb around. So my bum is like near their face. And I can do as you said, like an upside down blow job. But then so often, I think they take my bum being there right near their head as a sign that I want to do 69. So they'll kind of try and pull me on top. And I'm like, 'Oh, fuck, no, I didn't. I just want to give you a fucking good blow job. And now you're trying to eat my pussy as well'. Like, I just wanted to focus on an excellent blow job, see how deep down me I can get that dick and instead, you're pulling out the 69 again. And again, it's like if that's what they want to do, that's cool. But I'm like, well, it's not that that's what I was suggesting. I just need to get to this angle. Logistically.
Holly Harte 23:21
Yeah, you're having a good time just slobbing on that knob like corn on the cob.
Jenna Love 23:25
I'm good! Yeah! Just let me have a good time. But then I know, I have heard some men say they are enjoying the blowjob too much. And they need the distraction of the pussy on their face. And that's fair enough. That's cool. But I just like to focus on one thing at a time. Which brings us to this thing that we all get asked, which is what do we like? What do we want to do? In the bedroom? Clients ask us this all the time. They want to do what we enjoy, which totally comes from a really good place of wanting us to have a nice time, of course.
Holly Harte 24:01
Yeah, it does. But it can be a really frustrating question for a lot of sex workers. Because the way it's often framed is almost like palming off the burden of choice of, of dictating what's going to happen next in the session. And it's really hard for us to dictate the service when we don't know what you want, we're not mind readers. And what we want or what we prefer is probably just to be laying around and not doing a whole lot even if you know, even though we probably enjoy the sex with you, gosh putting us in that sort of position where we have to make all the decisions is a lot. We oftentimes will tell you one thing or another that we generally enjoy, but like I said before, I really like a really quick quickie, and then some cuddles. And I don't think often that's what you want to hear. I don't think you want to hear 'Quick, bust one out as quick as you can and then let's snuggle up and maybe have a snooze for the rest of the booking'. That sort of feels a bit offensive. I know that with the time that you're spending a lot of money on, you'd like us to do more and I am so up for that. But that's just not how my horny instant gratification brain works. So I sometimes need you to tell me what you want. And I want your fantasies, I want to know what excites you. So we can do that together.
Jenna Love 25:12
Yeah, look for me. I mean, if somebody asks me, what do you want to do? The answer is order a pizza and watch Netflix, like, that's what I want to do. But I'm happy to do my job as well. But like I don't, I think it irks me a little bit. And this is getting a little bit maybe academic about it. But because to me, it sort of seems like they're forgetting that this is my job, and making an assumption that whatever action I want to do, that I would want to be doing it with them, and that I would choose them to be doing it with. And it's like, well, if I am really horny, and if I am wanting to have sex, I want to have it with my husband or my boyfriend. Like, that's the reality. And I don't, obviously, I'll never say that to a client. And I understand that it may not be the nicest thing for clients of sex workers to hear. But that is the reality. I want to be having sex with the people that I choose to have sex with, of course.
Holly Harte 26:05
Yeah. So you love your job, but it is still a job. And it is still work.
Jenna Love 26:08
Exactly. And I just think it's this thing of them saying like, what do you want to do? And like, sometimes I'm like, 'Well, nothing with you!'. That's rare. You know, much more often I actually am enjoying myself. But you know, there are some times when I'm like, I don't know, I kind of think the audacity of you to think that I would want to do anything with you is pretty wild. Anyway, I probably just lost all my clients again. We should just call this podcast 'How to lose a client in 10 episodes'. So, but the other the other aspect of that which you touched on Holly is the customer service aspect. Like I grew up working in my parents' retail business my whole life for so many years. So I've always I've got this element of, you know, pleasing the customer being the most important thing. And you know, sex work is the same as retail in that there's a limit to it, right? It's not about you just do whatever the customer wants, you do what the customer is, what is going to make the customer happy within a certain framework. And when I was working retail, if somebody wanted me to do something that was outside of my boundaries, obviously, I wouldn't do that. But within the boundaries of the work, the idea is to keep the customer happy. And you know, it's really difficult to get that out of your head, especially when people are paying you a lot of money. And that it gets it gets really tricky. Because payment, as we've talked about does not negate consent. And just because somebody has paid us, it doesn't mean that they can do whatever they want, or that we should do whatever they want. Absolutely not. But there is an aspect of well, this is a service that I'm providing. So for you to come in here and say what do you like, I'm like, well, this, it's not about that. It's about what you like, which I think is really, it's really tricky. And it's hard for people to get their heads around that because when you take the payment away, things are a bit different. And don't get me wrong, you should be communicating with your sex worker. And they should be communicating with you as you go along the process which, you know, you might move your hand towards a direction and say, 'Oh, do you like this? Are you comfortable with me doing that? Or does that feel good?' listening to their, you know, if their breath is quickening or if they're kind of looking a bit disengaged or whetever, like all of that communication and continuous consent is is so so vital, but just the overall 'What do you want to do now?' It makes us go 'Well, I don't know. Do you want me to get out my knife set so we can do medical play? Or do you want small penis humiliation?' Do you want like, there's just such a wide range of things and we're not mind readers. I think that's it at the end of the day.
Jenna Love 26:41
Yeah, it's like when I get clients who think I'm going to be really wildly kinky because of my job. And I'm like, my personal preferences are exceedingly vanilla. And I like I said I just like a quickie, really intense passionate, let's do, I can do 10 quickies, let's go for it. But I'm not into anything particularly wild. And I'm so keen to experiment with my clients. And I do have fun doing that. And I do find things that get me off. And that's cool. But I don't have a particular kink. So when they come and they say, you know, what do you want to do and I'm like, it's not gonna thrill you it's gonna be literally just dick me. Just dick me.
Holly Harte 28:47
Yeah, spot on, I'm exactly the same.
Holly Harte 29:27
Yeah, if I feel like you're fishing for a kink, you're not going to find it with me. You need to come to me with what you want. And I can facilitate that gladly, but I'm not going to come out with some wild kink that you're going to try today.
Jenna Love 29:41
That is a much more polite way of putting it and I'm exactly the same as you Holly. If what I love in my personal life is quick fuckin dirty fucks. Like that's my jam. I'm like, bend me over, fuck me. We get on with our day. Like that's, that's what I love. And I you know, I've never liked the idea of foreplay, cuz I just think I don't like the idea of separating those things. I think it should all just be one event. But I'm also somebody who's never really needed much foreplay. And I've been like, 'Can we just get to the dicking?' And that's kind of I know, it's a little bit maybe politically incorrect to say, because society has, for so many years been pushing against the idea that sex is just penis in vagina. And that it's not all just about having the sex, the man orgasms, and then it's done. And I agree with all those things. But my personal preference is just to have a bit of a dicking, and like, and yeah, I think that's just it, it's not gonna thrill the client. They're like, 'Oh, oh, it's just that?'
Holly Harte 30:40
Yeah. And I feel like I'm contradicting myself a little bit here when I say I also really enjoy body worship. I love being pampered, you said you're not so much into the foreplay, but I am in that regard. But I really like it to be all about me. I'm happy for an hour. If you rub every inch of my body, you lick every inch of my body cover me in things just fucking massage me, touch me everywhere. Great. But what a wanker I feel like if you say, 'What do you want to do?' And I say, 'Oh, just pamper me for the whole session, you've paid hundreds of dollars for'. I feel like a wanker! So although that's what I really enjoy, I feel like a dick suggesting it. So I want you to tell me what excites you. And we can do that we can have fun with it, I'm still going to have a fun time. But if you ask what I like, it's probably not going to excite you a lot.
Jenna Love 31:29
I think, no, it's not that I don't like any foreplay. That's certainly not the case, and I'm probably misrepresenting myself here. Because I like a big long tease that like, I mean, I love that, it feels amazing. But it's also about like, for me, a lot of that is is in the mind, and it's the kind of emotional and intellectual foreplay that we do. So it's about the person I'm connecting with, like, that's a really big part of it. And it just, it varies day to day, some days, I do want to like spend time and really explore. And some days, I just want a fucking so yeah, it's certainly not that I don't like doing that other stuff. It's just realistically, in my life, I probably just veer towards the quickies because I think they're hot.
Holly Harte 32:15
So what also comes into that, then, is pressure for us to enjoy ourselves authentically. And to have orgasms.
Jenna Love 32:23
Yeah, and this is one that I'm that I'm very passionate about. And the idea that pleasure does not automatically equal orgasm, and orgasms do not automatically equal pleasure. And that's a real struggle for some people to get their heads around. I think as a society, we're slowly coming around to the idea that somebody can enjoy pleasure without orgasm. But the other way around is is really seen as non existent, particularly with women. So there's all this rhetoric about it being very, very difficult for women to orgasm. And that's valid. And I understand that that may well be the majority of women. In my case, it's the complete opposite. The wind changes, I'll have an orgasm like it's fucking ridiculous
Holly Harte 33:10
I can vouch for that.
Jenna Love 33:11
Yeah. And I mean, Holly, you're quite similar. You come quite easily
Holly Harte 33:14
Not as easily as you, but I do, I definitely come easier than a lot of women. A lot of people are surprised.
Jenna Love 33:21
And for me, there have been many occasions in my life where I've not been enjoying myself. And I have orgasms. Because it's- Like there's see there's all this stuff as well, about women needing to have an emotional connection in order to orgasm, or they need a lot of build up. Or they need mental stimulation. And I just don't. I don't, I don't know what it is about me. I'm sure there are others out there like me, if you touch my genitals, I'm probably going to cum. You don't even have to do it well, like it's just how it is. And look, it's handy in my line of work. Because there's that ego boost for people who come into sexual contact with me. But it doesn't mean I'm enjoying it. And that's, I don't know, that's really hard for people to accept. I can tell you that there have been situations I've been in that have been non consensual, and I have orgasms. And I have squirted. And the people I've been with have taken that as a sign of me actually consenting, when I'm not. And I don't know, it's really upsetting. And this is something that's really I know, this was supposed to be a fun sex episode. But it's something that that I'm really passionate about sharing because both men and women and non binary individuals absolutely can orgasm when they're not having a nice time. And I think that that's really important because when people just take an orgasm as a sign of thumbs up. That's really dangerous. So I hadn't really answered the question. I just went on my rant. I think, yeah, there absolutely is a pressure for us to enjoy ourselves because as human beings we like generally most well adjusted human beings. like to do things with other human beings, consensually, we like to have nice experiences with each other. I don't think that's a groundbreaking concept. So as a result, like our clients want us to have a nice time. And I think that's, that's so fair. And it comes from a really nice place. But it's another one, that's tricky, because sometimes we may not have a nice time, and it may be nothing to do with you, we might just have other shit going on in our life. But we weren't able to cancel the booking. Or we might have, you know, sometimes you like we've got period pain, and it's just it kind of gets in the way. And we're just, you know, you might be great, but physically, we're just not in the best position. You know, there's just there's so many factors like that. So there is a lot of pressure for us to enjoy ourselves. And I think that a lot of sex workers would likely pretend that they are enjoying themselves, even if they're not, and I don't think that they are doing anything wrong. By doing that.
Holly Harte 35:55
I feel like after your words, I anything I say is going to be a little bit 'pick me' because I definitely feel pressure to enjoy myself. But I also am, and I'm sure anyone who's had a booking with me can attest to this, an exceedingly chirpy, intensely excited person in a booking. And I do tend to just have a good time and do enjoy myself often a lot. You know, it's perfectly valid that a lot of people don't on occasions. But oftentimes I am, there are bookings where I have not had as much of a fun time. And I think I'm polite, but I probably don't pretend as much that I'm enjoying myself, I think I'm a little bit too transparent for that. I think it's pretty obvious when I'm not happy. And in terms of having orgasms. I'm pretty quick to say, 'Sorry, I'm just not going to cum today'. I've said it many times. And once again, I'm sure I have clients who are listening. They can rely on me often to orgasm, and that's great. But sometimes it's just not going to happen. I posted about it on Twitter this week, I tried to have a wank in the shower, and I couldn't cum. And sometimes that's just what happens. It's a human body. And it's not a reflection on you or on the sex toy I was using in the shower, or on me or on anything. Sometimes. orgasms just don't happen. And that doesn't mean I wasn't feeling pleasure. And it doesn't mean I don't enjoy the sex with you. But yeah, I'm happy to say sometimes, sorry. It's just not happening today. Let's do something else.
Jenna Love 37:25
Yeah, don't get me wrong, I feel like I'm painting myself in a really bad light here. Like, I think I'm like you I am quite chirpy, I really love my job. Nine times out of 10. More than that, I'm having a great time. And I really want to be there. I just think it's like, using that as the barometer for someone else's pleasure can be quite misleading. I also think our society's got this real, I think a lot of us have this almost entitlement to other people's orgasms. And I say that as somebody who used to be guilty of that myself. And at what it was through dating, I've dated one woman and one man, both of whom were not able to orgasm in front of other people. So they both had orgasms in their life and could do it on their own, but weren't able to do it when with someone else. And it really taught me that they don't owe me an orgasm, all I can do is have an open and honest relationship with them. And if they say that they're having a good time, then I have to trust that they are having a good time. That is all that I can do. And it really made me think about the way we we talk about orgasms, because we often sort of say, I'm going to give you an orgasm, whereas I think really what the way we should frame it is that that other person is giving you their orgasm. And that's really special. And I think we should be quite grateful when somebody allows us to see that. But we shouldn't expect that that they will be able to give us that experience.
Holly Harte 38:52
Yeah, there's definitely been a massive learning curve for me, during my time in the sex industry in relation to particularly the male orgasm. I used to think that if someone I was with couldn't come or couldn't get erect that it was a reflection on my performance or on me. And it's taken a long time for me to get to that point of realising that- and I say this to a lot of my clients that do have trouble achieving either of those things= It's about the journey, not the destination. That's such a frequent thing that I say. But it is the most important thing is that we're connecting and we're having this physical time together and sharing pleasure. And we can share pleasure without having either of us having reached an orgasm. So yeah, that's a definite societal thing that we do need to break down, that an orgasm is the end goal of sexual activity.
Jenna Love 39:40
I think we were talking before about this idea of when clients say like, what do you want to do? And how like you and I are both I think we're very open minded. And clients do often expect us to be like kinkier than we actually are. Because I've always said that people often will call me kinky and I go oh, I don't know if I am. I think open minded is more appropriate, because I'm kind of happy to do whatever within limits. And I'm happy to try things. I'll always try something once, maybe twice. But I don't have that drive myself to do particularly kinky things. I'm just cool to go along with it and give it a go. And if someone else is getting off on it, then I'm fucking there. You know? Like, that's enough for me. So yeah, I think that's a slight difference of definitions. I'm sorry, I can't do anything fun, can I? This is supposed to be like a fun episode, and I just make it... not fun. Anyway, oh, well, back to it. It's gone this direction now so here we go. So often, I you know, we get clients that are coming to us, and they want to do something really kinky or something that's really out there or, you know, really forbidden, but they don't actually have a particular thing they want to do.
Holly Harte 40:53
Yeah, one of the most frustrating inquiries that I receive from time to time is, 'Hey, can we try a kink?' and I go, well, what do you mean, try a kink? You don't try a kink you have a kink. Or you don't. It's, you know, if you're asking, 'can we try to experiment with something?', sure. I say, 'Well, what sort of things do you look at when you look up porn? Or what do you fantasise about?' And often the response is 'I dunno'. And it's so frustrating. Once again, I think, do you want me to do small penis humiliation? Or I make a joke like, 'Well, how about I shove this massive thing up your ass?' And very quickly, they go, 'Oh, no, no, that's not what I want'. So they know very well, what they don't want, but not what they do want. And that can be really frustrating. I do seem to get a lot of people come to me who want to try a golden shower. And I guess it's it is a very common kink these days. And I wouldn't even call it a kink. I'd say it's a mild interest. It's very common. It's very mainstream these days. And that's cool. But I guess it's also very mainstream in porn now. And so a lot of people think, 'Oh, yeah, I could try that'. And I get a lot of people who don't enjoy it when they try it. And I pee on them. And I look down and they're like, 'meh', I'm like, yeah, well, that's fine. It's totally fine to feel that way. But I'm here for the experimentation. And if you have something in particular you want to try, I'm happy to facilitate those sorts of things. But yeah, in terms of like, if you're not actually into it, sometimes I feel like people feel like because they're seeing a sex worker, they have to tick off every box that ever existed, they have to try all of the sexual things, they have to get the most out of a session by doing all of the weirdest stuff we can possibly do. And there's so much more you can get out of a booking with a sex worker than just doing unique things. I think it's a really amateurish sex worker client thing to be like, and it's the same as you know, when people contact you and say, 'What's your service list? What are all of the things that you would do? And so I can try and do all of those things in a session'. And I think that's sort of missing the point of what seeing a sex worker is. But you know, if you want to try something, and you're not really into it, it doesn't work for me. And if it doesn't work for you, it's really just wasting your booking. But hey, that's that's your choice, I guess.
Jenna Love 43:11
Yeah, I think there's a small element of us that's like, we're happy to, we are a safe place to explore. And so that, it is useful to sort of go, oh, that, you know, I've been wanting to try this thing. So great. But it's when you don't get any sense that they actually have been wanting to try it. I think golden showers is the perfect example. My now ex, I met him as a client. And when the first time we met, he came in and I was like, 'hey, so what are you feeling like today?' And he was, he said, 'I thought we might both start by weeing on each other'. And, like, I've never forgotten that line. It was such a good opener. I cracked up laughing because I just thought, well, there is- straight to it. He's somebody who loves pee. he loves being peed on. He loves peeing on people. So we did that. And it was really good fun. It's not something that gives me anything sexual. But doing it with somebody who loves it. I'm like, this is great. You're enjoying yourself. I'm enjoying myself too, just not in a sexual way. But then same as you I get so many guys who just want to try it. And as I'm happy to do it an easy one to try, you know. And I wee on them. And I'm like, so 'What did you What did you think?', you know, and nine times out of 10 they go 'Well it just felt like you were weeing on me?' And I'm like, 'Yeah. That's what it is'. Like, I think that they haven't thought and like and same as you, I'll say 'Have you watched that in porn?' And they go 'No, not really'. I'm like, well, then 'why did you ever?' like, there's no harm in trying especially stuff like that. There's no harm in trying that. It's just it seems a bit a little bit pointless, although it's a safe space to try it in. So I dunno.
Holly Harte 43:32
I think some people see a service list and they see Golden Shower listed, and they think 'This is going to be my great sexual awakening. So I better try this thing in case that's what I've always wanted'. And that's not really what it's all about.
Jenna Love 44:58
Yeah, I mean, I guess that's possibility. But for me personally, whenever I've really enjoyed stuff in sex, I've like looked it up before, like, I've had an interest in it. Like I, you know, I started having group sex, I loved the idea of group sex. And I always wanted that to happen. And then when it came, when it was reality, I was like, 'Oh, my god, this is better than I even imagined'. But like, it wasn't like, I'd never considered the idea and then thought, well, I better give that a go. Because it's really freaky. And out there. Like, it was something I always wanted to. It's something that again, it's not something I get as much these days, which is nice. But in my early days, where I was mainly just working from a forum environment, I had quite a few clients early on, who were quite dominant in the bedroom, and I'm very naturally submissive. So I'm really happy to go along with that. And those clients would do like spanking and all that sort of stuff. And I, you know, genuinely enjoyed it. But they would write reviews, and they would talk about that stuff that we did. And so then I would get all these clients coming to me, who started doing those things. But I could tell that it wasn't in their nature, and that it wasn't something they were getting off on. And I would say to them, 'Is that something you like?' Or because again, I'm happy to go along with it? Are you just doing that because you think that that's what I like? And I do I get a lot of clients who start doing that sort of thing. And they're doing it because they think that that's what I'm going to enjoy. And the the irony with that, particularly with that power dynamic is that it's not hot to be dommed if the person isn't loving domming you. Like it's not-
Holly Harte 46:33
The reluctant dom
Jenna Love 46:33
The reluctant dom is not a hot dom. It's just someone hitting you. Like, honestly, it takes it from spanking to you just being like 'Ow. Why are... why are you hitting me?' And they're like, 'Are you enjoying this?' And you're like, 'Well, no', because it's not, you know, it's not the dynamic. You don't, you need to have the whole essence there. And that when clients come to me with fetishes that they love, whatever it might be, it might be that they love you wearing socks the whole time. You know? Awesome. I'm going to really get off on the fact that they are just like, 'Oh my god, your socks'. They're loving. I'm gonna be like, 'Fuck yeah! My socks!' But if they're like, 'Leave your socks on, because that is freaky. Wow, look at the freakiness'. I'll be like, uhhhh... okay cool.
Jenna Love 46:34
Yeah, that's, that's such a big thing with clients with kinks. Like you said before. I love golden showers, like I love giving golden showers. But I don't get off on it. But I get off on seeing my clients get off. So it's really exciting doing something when it's what your client really enjoys.
Jenna Love 47:36
I guess they could turn around and say, 'Okay, Holly and Jenna, but I get off on you enjoying yourself', which is like, which is really valid because it's the same. We're all like that, we get off on on other people having a good time, and quick sidebar. I know we all have like at least one in 10 clients who comes in and is like, 'I know it's really weird, but I actually enjoy the other person feeling pleasure, I actually really like it when you enjoy yourself'. And you're like 'That is the most basic hu-. Like, you literally just come in here and announce that you're not a psychopath?' Like that's weird. That's really weird. Of course you like it when the other person enjoys themselves. That's called being a human being, thank you for having empathy. Yeah, so I get that clients do want us to enjoy ourselves, because that makes it more enjoyable for them. But it's just that fine line where it's like, but we are providing a service. And we and we're not going to enjoy ourselves, if you're not. Like that, it kind of goes both ways, I guess.
Holly Harte 48:33
And on that note, we may also freely consent to things that we don't enjoy, or don't really want to do.
Jenna Love 48:39
Yeah, there's this real, you know, society has come a really long way in terms of consent, which is fucking wonderful. And, you know, I don't want anyone to ever feel like they are pressured to do something that they don't want to do in the bedroom, just to please their partner. I think it's really good that we're coming to a place of accepting that. But there's also this really huge, very nuanced spectrum, between, 'Oh my god, I love that, I want to do it every day, it feels amazing'. And 'I will never do that, not for a million dollars'. There are so many things that fit somewhere in between those two things on the spectrum. And I always think about it in terms of my work. Like there are things that I love doing and always want to do. There are things that I quite like doing. There are things that I get nothing out of, but have no issue doing. There are things that I don't really like, but if there's money involved, sure thing, and then there are things that I wouldn't I wouldn't do for money or anything. And and that that spectrum I think is really important because there are things that I will do, because it's my job, that if somebody asked me in my personal life, I'll be like, no. But it's my job, so I'm happy to do it.
Holly Harte 49:51
Yeah, that spectrum you just described is perfect. I can 100% relate to that. And obviously this doesn't mean that clients can do whatever they want. You still have to get consent.
Jenna Love 50:01
Yeah, and this is, this is the thing like, this is where the SWERFs come in and say that, you know, 'You're being paid, so you can't consent'. And I just, they're missing so much nuance. And they're missing, like, the way the fucking world works like, we're, we all consent to do things that we don't want to do every single day. Doing the laundry, taking out the bins, going to work, doing certain things at our jobs. As human beings, we are very capable. And I think it's our right to be able to consent to things that we don't want to do, because consent and desire are different things and they should be and you know, in an ideal world, wouldn't it be magical if all we only ever consented to the things that we desired to do, but we know that that's not reality. And we know that sometimes there are incentives other than desire, money can be one of those incentives. And that to suggest that the money takes away our agency to make an informed decision about whether it's worth it or not, is really infantilizing. But I mean, that's what SWERFs love to infantilize us. But yeah, I just think it's something that I know people outside of the sex industry sort of go, 'Oh, well, how can you agree to do things you don't want to do? Doesn't that mean, you're being taken advantage of blah, blah, blah'. And I guess I would suggest that we all do that all the time. And if you're only uncomfortable with the idea of me consenting to things that I don't desire to do in the bedroom. There might be a bit of a cognitive dissonance there, I think.
Jenna Love 51:37
So I thought I'd chuck in a little question from one of our patrons here. I'm switching up the format a bit. But when we said we were doing this episode, he sent us this he said, 'I have never and would never force anything or cross any boundaries of the lovely lady that I'm privileged to spend time with, is asking, 'May I kiss you?' in a booking seen as thoughtful/respectful?
Holly Harte 51:58
Look, I don't take issue with it. But I do think it's a little bit superfluous. I think, once you're in a booking setting, the body language says a lot. If you go to kiss her and she leans in, I think you're good. I don't think you need to ask before doing each individual thing. I do think, as Jenna said before, just clarifying along the way, you know, listening to how they're breathing, looking at their facial expressions, and maybe saying, you know, 'how does this feel' or asking things like that is all valid. And I think a lot of sex workers will guide you as to their consent as well. And say, 'No, I'm not into that'.
Jenna Love 52:31
I think this will surprise you, Holly, but I love it. If somebody asks if they can kiss me, instant panty dropper, I think it's really hot.
Holly Harte 52:37
I think it's overkill. I sort of go 'Oh, come on. Just get on me. Take me!'
Jenna Love 52:42
Yeah look, I don't need people to ask. That- I mean, sorry. In a booking, like this, we've got to clarify. We're talking about, in a booking situation where there has already been negotiation beforehand. And there's an understanding of the expectations. Completely different outside of a sex work environment. But yeah, I don't need people to ask if they can kiss me. But I, I see it as very thoughtful and respectful. And my answer is always like, 'Oh, my god, of course!', and I jump on them. Like, I'm never like, 'Oh, let me think about it'. Like, I'm always ready for it. Again, in a booking situation. But, but I love it. I think it's super nice. So there you go. We haven't given you a straight answer, because we've got two different answers.
Jenna Love 53:27
Our misconception this week might be controversial. People might disagree. People might riot about this, but the misconception we've chosen is that the majority of men cannot find the clitoris. Do you think it's a misconception Holly?
Holly Harte 53:43
I do think it's a misconception. Most of my clients seem to have zero issues finding my clitoris and it's wonderful. I was not able to cum clitorally until oh gosh, maybe about five or six years ago, I never was able to enjoy clitoral stimulation for many years. So now I absolutely 'froth it' as they say, as the youth say today. What about, what about you Jenna? What's your opinions on the men's ability to find clitori?
Jenna Love 54:15
I think it's the biggest misconception of our time.
Holly Harte 54:18
Jenna Love 54:20
Okay, no, that's not true. But I think it's, I don't know. From my lived experience, which is all I can speak from, I have the opposite problem, Men zone the fuck in on my clitoris. I don't know if I have a very prominent clitoris or what, but they just go straight onto it and I'm like 'Jesus Christ! That is, wow!' Like, mines. I don't know, mines very sensitive. And I just yeah, I have the opposite problem. I find I have come across very few men that haven't been able to find it. And in reality, a lot of guys go there too quickly for me and focus too much on it. And it's it's a very bloody sensitive area so yeah, I often find myself being like, 'Oh god, get away from my clitoris, holy shit!' like they just focus so much on it. And I know that that comes from, well I think that it comes from this whole push about how most women can't come from penetration and most women need clitoral stimulation. And you know, I'm that's not true of me I can come from clitoral stimulation, I can come from g-spot, from penetration, from anal, whatever, as we've talked about, I cum a lot. So for me, like, I don't need this focus on there. And some some women may like that, which is great, but it just comes back to that thing of like, everybody is different. You know? Yeah. And it's a really sensitive part of your body. I also get a lot of guys that pull the hood back. And that is incredibly painful for me. And what hurts me about it, is, this is gonna sound so cruel, but the smug look on their face. Because they think they've got this secret, they're like 'Other guys don't do that, do they?' And I'm like, 'No! Thank god!'. Because it's, I need the, I need the protection on there. And a lot of people who have been with me will know that my preference is for stimulation, like right above or right next to my clitoris. And then it's sort of like, how do I describe it like, yeah, clitoral adjacent stimulation. It gives my clit enough like, kind of movement oh, I think Holly's demonstrating what she does on my clit...
Holly Harte 56:17
No I'm taking notes.
Jenna Love 56:18
Oh you're taking notes! Yeah, clitoral adjacent stimulation for me works really well. Straight on it can be okay, depending how aroused I am and whatever. But pulling back the hood. And going all in hurts. It's way too much for me. And again, some women absolutely love that, of course. But I just don't know where this idea of men not being able to find the clitoris came from. If anything, when I see female clients, they're really worried. They're like I don't, because generally they have less experience with vulvas than penises. And I can totally relate to that. They have no trouble finding it, because they're not blind. But you know, if anything, they tend to be a bit more concerned about it. But it just annoys me that this is such a common statement. And there's all this like 'ugh, men never go down on women and it's all about them'. And my experience is the exact opposite. I'm like, 'get off my clit and let me suck your cock goddamnit!'.
Holly Harte 57:19
And now it's time for Shit People Say. Jenna has encountered an interesting individual in the depths of YouTube.
Jenna Love 57:26
As I always do. I know I'm a glutton for it. Alrighty, so this is it's a comment on those BuzzFeed videos. Again, they are the gift that keeps on giving. I love it. So somebody commented, 'Sex work isn't work'. Oh, they thought they had a real hot take there, didn't they?
Holly Harte 57:43
Jenna Love 57:44
Edgy! And I always respond with this. I said 'You try it for a week and come back and tell me that it isn't work'. Because that's what I like, really? If you really don't think it's work, go give it a go. And let me know what you think. Because it's fucking work. Like I can't, anyway, I'm pretty sure it's a woman. But I don't know. I'm going to call her she. I'm going to assume her gender because I don't like her. She wrote 'Just came back. It's not.' Which I thought it's pretty, it's pretty good. It's pretty sassy. And I said, 'Oh, send me your advertising'. Because I know that she obviously didn't go and try sex work for a week. You know? She said, 'Nah, sorry, I do real work. I don't make money the easy way. I don't sell my body. I sell my time'. And I was like, 'Yeah, so do I. Like literally I sell my time. Like it's, it's clocked by the hour'. And I said, 'You honestly think that it's easy to do what I do? Think about it for half a second. It's not easy'. And that's what I don't get, like, I understand just pulling out the old trope of 'eh it's just laying back with y-'. But really think about it. Really think about the job. Does it sound easy to you?
Holly Harte 58:52
Yeah, it might be good money. There might be a lot of money, but it's never fast or easy money.
Jenna Love 58:57
I think it can be quick. I think it can be, well, maybe not these days. Back in the Backpage days.
Holly Harte 59:04
Yeah, yeah. There's definitely some time investment or greater time investment that goes into these things than people think and yeah, and it's definitely not easy money. Even the easiest bookings I've had are still work.
Jenna Love 59:17
Yes. She said, 'You're taking selfies, videos at most. Not that frickin hard babe.' And like this is on a video about me being a full service sex worker. So I was like hmmm, I responded, 'I literally have sex with people for money'. And that, that is not to say that like being an online only sex worker. I'm not saying that that's easy, either. That is very, very hard work. And I do that as well. And I prefer the in-person and I find it, not less work, but I find it more rewarding. But I just thought like what a fucking idiot, you don't even like, these people never know what they're even talking about. She responded. 'Ah ha ha ha ha that's so sad for you;. And I said 'Well, not as sad as someone who comments on a video without even understanding the first thing about it', she said, 'I understand that instead of working a real job, you slam your booty into anyone that inserts money in first, like a gumball machine. Slide a five in and get your rocks off. Jesus Christ. It's so pathetic and sad like, really? This was your goal and you're proud of it? Laughing emoji'. And like, I don't, it wasn't my goal. What do you mean? Like? No.
Holly Harte 1:00:24
The other frustrating things with her points is that she's, it's this whole glorification of 'the grind'. It's like 'your job is easy'. Like there's nothing worse than having a job that is not soul destroyingly hard labour or mentally taxing to the point where you need four weeks of leave just to deal with the job. I'm not saying at all that sex work's easy. But it's such a bizarre thing to think that if it was easy, that somehow makes it not worthy.
Jenna Love 1:00:50
A problem. Yeah. I also think what gets me so much about these people is that her view of me is that I quote, 'slam my booty into anyone that inserts money', which is pretty like, I wish I, that sounds great. But if that's what she thinks, if she thinks that I am just, you know, this vision of me that she has, is that anyone who waves a fiver at me, I'll spread my legs for, and why would you want to be cruel to somebody in that position? Like if what you think is, you think so low of me, and you think I'm in such a desperate situation? And that's with all these people, whenever they're like, 'Oh, God, you couldn't do anything better than that? Oh, blah, blah'. And it's like, well, if that's what you think, then why are you being an asshole to me? Shouldn't you be really kind, like, why are you being such a dick to the downtrodden? If that's your if that's your view? I'm not downtrodden. But if that's, you know, I said, 'Yep, as I suspected, you don't know anything about it'. She said, 'And as I expected, gumball machine'. I don't know how I proved that I was a gumball machine. And look, I got pretty sassy here. But I said, 'Babe, does it upset you that I make more than you and only have to work a few hours a week? I'm just really not sure why you're so invested in this'. And like, that's like you were saying like, why is it seen- I think in any other industry, if somebody was earning more money for working less hours, they would be praised for that, that would be considered intelligent, that they'd be using their their knouse(sp?). But if you're a sex worker, and you're doing that, it's 'Oh, how pathetic' and it's like, isn't that really smart? I have more time to spend with my family. I have more time to spend on my hobbies to improve myself. I'm not slaving away at a job earning money for someone else all the time. She said 'I'm just not sure why you can't get a real job as previous comment stated. I think you're just mad because I'm making a very true point. Put $1 in, get $1 out is what they say I guess.'
Holly Harte 1:02:48
Jenna Love 1:02:49
Which I don't know what that meant. What?
Holly Harte 1:02:53
That's the worst business model I've ever heard.
Jenna Love 1:02:59
She said 'Nah, but on the real, not even joking. Do you do coupons? Laughing emoji. Or a fall sale? laughing emoji. Maybe a spring savings? laughing emoji You make it way too easy, baby girl.'
Holly Harte 1:03:12
Ooh baby girl.
Jenna Love 1:03:14
And like people often they love this one, they're like 'Oh are there coupons?', or 'Can you get it on Afterpay hahaha?' And it's like, actually, yeah, like there are some some workers who will have like after 10 visits, you get an extra half an hour or
Holly Harte 1:03:27
Sometimes I do sales, in summer. Yeah, I'll be like, 'Hey, I'm doing a sale'. Yeah, that's that's business. Sorry.
Jenna Love 1:03:33
They'll give bonuses to their best clients. They might give extra time that you know, they might give gifts around Christmas time or whatever. Like, yeah, actually, that kind of stuff does happen. I don't know why you think it's so hilarious. And I just love 'I just don't know why you can't get a real job'. And it's like, why? Why do you want me to have a shitter job than I have now? Does that make it, I guess it's that? Are they jealous? like is it? I don't know.
Holly Harte 1:04:01
As always, we'd love to thank our wonderful patrons this week for supporting us. Our new Giving Somebodies are Ms Rainbow and Liz. Our New Very Generous Somebodies are Sai Jaiden Lillith, Evelyn Hunt, Josie and Crispy Cola. Our Even More Generous somebodies are Timmy, Andrew, Adam Smith, Leo, Lachlan, Cass, Sub London, Miss Billy, Diane Needs and Nora Knightley.
Jenna Love 1:04:34
And our Extremely Generous Somebodies are Aaron, Samuel, Andrew, Pete and Theodore Betts the first Esquire. Thanks so much for listening. I hope I haven't scared you off. I do.. I do like my job. I promise.
Holly Harte 1:04:50
Yeah. We love fucking you.
Jenna Love 1:04:55
Please look out for us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Patreon. Our name everywhere is Somebody You Pod as in podcast. Our Patreon starts at just $3 a month, and you can get all of our episodes ad free and a day early, plus bonus episodes, behind the scenes action, bloopers and more. Thank you for taking the time to listen to the voices of sex workers. And remember, Somebody You Love might just be a sex worker.